OH YES!!! It might be Newt,,,

[fairemily]

Originally Posted by LISteve

What happens is that most people (left and right both) refuse to remain unbiased and open minded. The hatred of the 1%ers is just so ridiculous. There are a few bad apples whose greed is unethical and perhaps illegal. The bottom line is that the 1%ers are the entrepreneurs that fuel the economy and they are painted in such a ridiculous light by the left leaning people on this board that it is laughable. The right frame of mind should be .... what can we do to help businesses operate and hire people? What can we do to lessen the burden on them so that they can hire more, pay more, grow the business and spur economic activity? It shouldn't be .... fuck you and pay even more taxes and pay our healthcare. If you say that .... the typical entrepreneur (who is typically brighter than the average person) will say ... OK fuck you ... you're fired and I will hire a bunch of Indians to do your job .... then I won't have to pay your healthcare and deal with you as a headache.

They also have this unfounded ridiculous notion that all Republicans are the devil. That they are all cronies of the rich and just looking to legislate the middle class into poverty. It is just so foolish that it has become nearly impossible to have a legitimate conversation.

Obama used intell from gitmo derived from waterboarding and used the military that was built up by his predecessors (That includes Clinton too). These are all things he abhors and he ran on the premise of eliminating waterboarding and closing Gitmo. Interesting.

Obama is a failure who is now reducing his political agenda into a class warfare to gain re-election. How does denegrating the entrepreneur who is the engine of the economy going to help us recover as a nation? His behavior is divisive and nonPresidential. He is incapable of reaching across partisan lines to obtain action and progress. Clinton could do it, LBJ could do it, Reagan did it. Why can't Obama? Because he sucks and needs to be fired.

That being said .... Bush was almost as bad. They could be two of the worst Presidents in our history. The only thing that Obama did was help us avert a financial collapse WHEN HE WAS ELECTED. AND .... that was only because the country was in love with this guy and had such confidence in him that there was no run on the banks and it restored a calmness in the markets. He helped out and bailed out those that he had to. This was a result of the boost in consumer confidence and not related to anything he actually did. EVerything after that has been a failure.

In closing .... it is a measure of someone's intelligence to see the value in somebody else's viewpoint and rarely is any party completely wrong or completely evil. I found Clinton to be a good President. I thought W was awful and don't even consider him a Republican. I would be shocked to see any one of the liberals on this board say anything complimentary or agree on any level with a Republican Conservative viewpoint. ( i already envision a tidal wave of sarcasm)

At least Emily likes good zombie movies - Zombieland is the best!

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you!

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea — God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

Elizabeth Warren


The 1% and thier GOP cronies have waged war on all those who helped them get where they are. They want to freeze pensions, remove collective bargaining, layoff thousands of workers instead of just paying thier fair share and let the trickle down capitalism work. The banks the people bailed out are hoarding so small buisness can't get the capital to start and even if they do to succeed against competition from mega corporations like Walmart with powerful lobbyist makes it nearly impossible. We has become a economic imperialistic society and the GOP has become thier cheerleader. They have no burden, they took the Bush tax breaks and ran to China, they could have stayed in America and still made huge profits but they are just greedy. The corporate tax breaks are at an all time low yet they still outsourced, are you so delusional to believe more breaks will bring them back, they have shown no good faith and yet we are supposed to trust them to do the right thing with bigger breaks, give me a break.

[fairemily]

Originally Posted by mikede

I can be complimentary about Republican conservatism Steve.
However, these people, running for President, are beyond conservative.
Even Pat Robertson, as far right a reactionary as you can get, has stated that these people now running for President are too far to the right for even him.
Give me a principled and intelligent conservative and I can happily compliment him/her, though I reserve the right to disagree.
But this wrecking crew?? Please,,, this is a crew of mean spirited, reactionary and lacking in intelligence people.
And Newt is their fourth pick, a man who considered the race to be a book tour, the others self destructed. Newt was in single digits until the idiocy and philandering of Cain, Perry and Bachman shone through.

None of the four should have even been frontrunners, zelots, liars, scampers and fools.

There are a few that just can't seem to penetrate past the sideshow with the exception of Paul. I blame the new style of supporters who choose the worst because they are brainwashed by Fox in thinking it takes sensationalism and brawn over brains and common sense to win. There is John Huntsman, who unfortunately is being swayed to the dark side out of desperation. The true Tea Party conservative Ron Paul who could not get media coverage for a very long time, they completely ignore Buddy Roemer who was both a congressman and governor, ran a successful bank that did not need a bailout and refuses any contribution greater then $100 and Gary Johnson who found way to one debate that I believe by Perry doing to keep Roemer out from calling him on his huge campain superpacs.

[LISteve]

Emily - that is a horrendous argument. All those services are paid for by the taxpayer. The corporation and the owners (the horrible 1%ers) paid about 50% of that while the people who we hire pay much less. We pay twice the tax rate on much more money. AND ... on top of that we give employees a fair wage and pay half (or more) of their healthcare .. yet we are evil. To tell you the truth ... I feel that the entrepreneur in exchange for providing a large share of the jobs in this country should be given a break on taxes. We pay far more than our fair share in total dollars and in tax rate. Elizabeth Warren's argument is baseless and patently false. NOt only does the entrepreneur pay income tax ... he is also paying the property tax. Did you know Emilythat the commercially zoned properties pay a HIGHER tax rate than residential? Furthermore ... did you know that many local governments are often inclined to offer property tax incentives to companies to locate in their communities that they do exactly what I say .... give the corporate citizen a property tax waiver for YEARS in exchange for locating there and providing jobs. That makes sense. Elizabeth Warren does not.

No more with the cronies. Obama and his cronies at Solyndra may have set that poor sap Secretary Wu to take the fall for Obama's crime. The secretary of Energy allowed the owners of Solyndra to get their money ouit of the bankrupt company before the government was paid. That is ILLEGAL!!!! He did so for Obama and his coorupt political cronies. His entire admionistration reaks of Chicago Corruption. Soon his attorney General is going to have to resign for his nonsense with Fast and Furious.

Emily ... if the entrepreneur does not provide the jobs ... who is? Do you think that the entrepreneur is not gowing his business out of spite for Obama?

I submit that you liberals should seek out all 1%ers and entrepreneurs and thank them for their service. Thank them for providing jobs and tax revenue.

[fairemily]

Originally Posted by LISteve

At least Emily likes good zombie movies - Zombieland is the best!

Return of the Living Dead (1985) was the greatest zombie movie ever made. It has distinctive characters (punks, mods, valley girl, blue collar guy, ambiguous Nazi Mortician, barbie doll punk girl, tar man), incredible well placed soundtrack, the social and political statements, fashion of the times, illegal military experiments. It was both hysterical and devastatingly sad, it is a masterpiece, zombie or otherwise. It was written and directed by Aliens scriptwriter Dan O Bannon who sadly only made one other film.

He wrote the line "Send more paramedics" is one of the most reconized quotes in a film history, there is even a punk band named after it.

I can't even remember Zombieland although I did watch it.

[LISteve]

That was the one with the guy who did the Pathmark commercials! That was a great one. I love when the boy zombie tells his girlfriend who is not a zombie .... " please let me eat your brains ... you would let me if you loved me." ... And she says .... " oh .... OK". Brilliant!!

[fairemily]

Originally Posted by LISteve

Emily - that is a horrendous argument. All those services are paid for by the taxpayer. The corporation and the owners (the horrible 1%ers) paid about 50% of that while the people who we hire pay much less. We pay twice the tax rate on much more money. AND ... on top of that we give employees a fair wage and pay half (or more) of their healthcare .. yet we are evil. To tell you the truth ... I feel that the entrepreneur in exchange for providing a large share of the jobs in this country should be given a break on taxes. We pay far more than our fair share in total dollars and in tax rate. Elizabeth Warren's argument is baseless and patently false. NOt only does the entrepreneur pay income tax ... he is also paying the property tax. Did you know Emilythat the commercially zoned properties pay a HIGHER tax rate than residential? Furthermore ... did you know that many local governments are often inclined to offer property tax incentives to companies to locate in their communities that they do exactly what I say .... give the corporate citizen a property tax waiver for YEARS in exchange for locating there and providing jobs. That makes sense. Elizabeth Warren does not.

No more with the cronies. Obama and his cronies at Solyndra may have set that poor sap Secretary Wu to take the fall for Obama's crime. The secretary of Energy allowed the owners of Solyndra to get their money ouit of the bankrupt company before the government was paid. That is ILLEGAL!!!! He did so for Obama and his coorupt political cronies. His entire admionistration reaks of Chicago Corruption. Soon his attorney General is going to have to resign for his nonsense with Fast and Furious.

Emily ... if the entrepreneur does not provide the jobs ... who is? Do you think that the entrepreneur is not gowing his business out of spite for Obama?

I submit that you liberals should seek out all 1%ers and entrepreneurs and thank them for their service. Thank them for providing jobs and tax revenue.

I am aware that commercially zoned properties are higher as well as Con Edison charges more for those spaces, I know all about zoning laws, air space rights, regulations, city politics. We are no talking about the local small buisness that might have a dozen employees. The problem is the huge corporations makes profits in the hundreds, can afford millions in lobbyists and lays off workers just to increase profits. The health care bill only stipulates employers that have over 50 workers, if you are doing well enough to need 50 workers then you can help them obtain an affordable health insurance plan. Elizabeth Warren said "factory", that means possibly hundreds fo workers, not your under 50 person operation. They do not pay thier fair share of taxes, that is been documented numerous times, they surplus goes on the backs of the middle and that is what the whole argument is about, if you benefited from government programs and subsidies give a small bit back to keep the system balanced, all the Dem want is to go back to the Clinton tax policies, the 1% did great then also. It's not even the 1% is a fraction of that like Koch and Walton that buy politicians to make sure none of thier fortune is touched, they pay more in lobbyist then in income taxes, that's disgusting.

You don't like hearing about the crony politicans, too bad, I'm sick of hearing about job creators who majority of jobs are created jobs overseas. The difference between the Scott Walkers and Obama is that the walker's push for laws that hurt the American like removing the EPA and takeaway collective bargaining to benifit thier financiers. Solyndra was to help us be prosperous not hurt us, it failed due to our inability to compete with overseas goods because our import and export taxes are corrupt. The latest is the pipeline stipulation in the payroll tax extension, who do they think they are kidding, they all need to wear big signs around the necks that they work for big oil not the people who elected them.

You use Solyndra like a weapon, care to compare a good intention but failed effort with going into a decade war so Dick Cheney company Haliburton can get a big military contract overcharging for shoddy equipment that cost soldiers thier lives. I guess it was legal to lie to the American people about phantom WMD, those genius warmongers are now working for Romney and the vicious circle continues.

[fairemily]

Originally Posted by LISteve

That was the one with the guy who did the Pathmark commercials! That was a great one. I love when the boy zombie tells his girlfriend who is not a zombie .... " please let me eat your brains ... you would let me if you loved me." ... And she says .... " oh .... OK". Brilliant!!

See, the medical supply owner is what I would consider a small buisness, a few employees, modest warehouse and a bag of rabid weasels.


http://movieclips.com/gUau-the-retur...rabid-weasels/

[fairemily]

back on topic....

What I think it wrong and I would go so far as dangerous about Newt is the elitism and if you don't achieve absolute greatness you have to clean toilets.

I went to the SBA years ago with questions regarding starting a modest cottage buisness. I did all my homework regarding the product I want to make, experimented, researched materials and most important I failed a lot, it's important to understand that failing does not make the person a failure, things happen, you recognize what went wrong and and try again using a different method. When I spoke with somone I was not prepared to be grilled about my finacial projections and goals for years to come like I was starting a million dollar corporation. I am just interested in being self sufficient enough to pay my bills and rent. Why does everyone need to strive for what would be most likely unattainable, why does everyone need to the most competitive, the ordeal of starting a buisness is daunting enough, having impossible expectations just adds unnecessary and distracting stress. I understand that the idea of buisness is to make money but how about starting with just making a living with pride see what happens in time.

It's because of people like Trump and Gingrich that we programed to believe it's either you are exceptional or you are a loser. This false ideals that because a very few made record profits like Steve Jobs everyone should reach for that goal, it's one in a billion in one shot. They are confidence crushers because you can't come up with a plan that would compete with a billion dollar business before you even start the ground work then you should not even bother. Gingrich made a lot of money branding himself as this remarkable individual, it's all smoke and mirrors, if he were that great he would have been the strong frontrunner from the start, he is where he is by default.

[fairemily]

Steve, I just want to add I do not hate the 1%. I am against the unsavory buisness practices that brought many to that place, it might be legal but certainly morally questionable. I wrote here that Cain made his fortune doing things other people with a conscience might have a problem with. This is not only directed at Cain exactly but he had to do at least one of the following in order to get to the top of a big corporation in today's world, it's impossible to get to there on merit alone anymore, you have to get your hand's dirty. It's normal practice to lay off hundreds of workers for cheaper outsourcing in places with inhumane labor laws even if the company is making a profit, knowly using chemicals that would harm the environment, not providing health care, fair wage or rights or manipulating a system to make a profit knowing it would cause another person misery. I would have a big problem being asked or expected to commit any of the everyday things big corporations do to make thier mega profits, you cannot deny this is true.

I'm going to use this amazing man again as an example again, he is what I would call a remarkable individual. He refused to go along with making more profit buisness as usual schemes while screwing the loyal employees. He could have made his fortune but he choose morality, if only thier were more like him in those 1% companies we would be in a more balanced and prosperous as a whole society. Isn't it a shame that in corporate America just doing the right thing is now considered heroic ??

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...s-ceo-retires/

[Monk]

Originally Posted by LISteve

Many of these are ridiculous. I love "he gave the order to kill Osama Bin Laden" ... How did that conversation go ... Sir ... we have found Bin Laden we can kill him tonight ... yes or no? .... Gee that's a tough one .....

Are you kidding? There were several options on the table. Drone attacks, for example. A covert attack. The decision to send in a task force was extremely risky. (Didn't go so well for Jimmy Carter, for example, did it?) As it is, one of the helicopters developed mechanical difficulties and almost scuttled the operation. Obama put in place the intelligence operation that tracked bin Laden, he and his advisers worked closely with the team they put in place to track the operation and he weighed his options and gave the final order. This happened on his watch. He gets full credit for it, as he should.

As for "putting in a U.S. friendly government," the days of the CIA covertly making a side deal with some generals and organizing a coup d'etat are long gone. We live in a multilateral world in which we depend on the support of other nations to achieve our goals. Supporting self determination and democracy globally is very much in our national interest. Supporting authoritarian dictatorships that brutally suppress the rights of their people is not.

[fairemily]

I was talking to a GOP Korean War vet today about election and he said he would vote for Paul in a heartbeat, that Gingrich is the sleaziest creep ever to run for office (he is still offended by him going after Clinton While doing exactly the same, people do not forget so easily) . He said Paul's foreign policies alone would get his vote, that there is no reason we are still have any American troops on the 38th parallel and the South is advanced enough to take care of any conflicts. It's really interesting to talk with someone who was actually drafted about American involvement with international affairs, he was far more concerned about the losing his SS and Medicare then threats abroad.

This new drone nonscense is more of the same diversions and ragging on the president for not be tough enough, let it go, it's not even human. If Iran actually had the scientists who woudl know how to duplicate they still need the hardware, it's not like you can get those parts at the local store, it's as useless to them as a replica of a Klingon Bird of Prey from Star Trek. We need to focus on more then half the country is underpaid and impoverished and there is only 1 job to every 4 citizens. The next time Dick Cheney speaks publicly about matter of our international involvement we should let him be extradited to stand trial at the Hague for war crimes, he needs to take a lesson from W. Bush and keep a low profile. Romney another one, he can send his children to retrieve the drone if he wants it back that bad.

[mikede]

GLENN BECK on Fox News: "he is the only candidate I cannot support." (referring to Gingrich)

what more needs to be said about Newt?

[fairemily]

Palin approved Tea Party ladies Christine O' Donnell and Nikki Haley came out in support of Romney, O' Donnell went so far as to say "anybody but Gingrich". They do not believe Gingrich is reformed and even popular Iowa pastors have spoken out that he is not sincere enough.

Pacifist Ron Paul is doing a massive 10,000 lbs. food drive and Gingrich is signing books and standing with Trump saying he will help 10 poor kids in a reality show style (that's big of them). It's no wonder devout Christians Conservatives have thier doubts about Gingrich. I still cannot believe I agreed with Karl Rove and now I am siding with the far Christian right on this, Mike should I be worried ??

http://www.politickerny.com/2011/12/...raper-of-2012/

http://ronpaulfooddrive.com/

[LISteve]

Maybe you have seen the light Em! I bet if you read Bachman's book you would come away with a completely different outlook on her. I like her personally but she just doesn't have the experience. The whole premise of eliminating Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae is ridiculous. That would eliminate liquidity in the mortgage market and make it impossible to lend. Eventually the private sector would restore liquidity but home ownership would become the American Impossible Dream.

I like Ron Paul but his foreign policy is a little too whacky for me. Gingrich has his flaws but I don't care so much about moral character for my president. I liked Clinton and he was a complete filanderer. Carter was morally the most upstanding man ever in office ... but he failed miserably when it came to our economy and restoring American pride after Viet Nam.

[fairemily]

Originally Posted by LISteve

Maybe you have seen the light Em! I bet if you read Bachman's book you would come away with a completely different outlook on her. I like her personally but she just doesn't have the experience. The whole premise of eliminating Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae is ridiculous. That would eliminate liquidity in the mortgage market and make it impossible to lend. Eventually the private sector would restore liquidity but home ownership would become the American Impossible Dream.

I like Ron Paul but his foreign policy is a little too whacky for me. Gingrich has his flaws but I don't care so much about moral character for my president. I liked Clinton and he was a complete filanderer. Carter was morally the most upstanding man ever in office ... but he failed miserably when it came to our economy and restoring American pride after Viet Nam.

No Steve, I think after years of dealing with bullshit artists I can spot on even if only on TV. What's wacky is entertaining another middle east war for a robot and another what if scenario. I have no problem with another desert war if the ones who voted for it sent thier children to the front lines, Bachmann claims to have 20 something kids, well she has a Platoon all ready to ship off to that hellhole. Ron Paul is the only candidate that makes any sense when it comes to international affairs.

How can moral charater not be a big deal to you, morality is what molds us as people. It's not his cheating, it's the ongoing hypocrisy, lies and arrogance that makes Newt a disgusting person. Morality is more important then experience when it comes to important matters, it was the lack of morality that caused the economic crisis we are in now. Bachmann has horrible moral charater, she is a disgusting bigot, so is Santorum and Perry. I guess you don't know any gay people otherwise you would understand how despicable they really are.

It was Nixon and Ford who served at the end of the Vietnam War, it was thier chance to make things right. American shame was more like it, we drafted a generation of mostly poor off to a jungle war that had no purpose, they were told lies for corporate profit just like Bush did with Iraq, if Kennedy lived there would have never been a war. It was not like WWII where our close allies were in imminent danger and we helped liberate concentration camps. The soldiers that were lucky enough to return were treated like garbage, most hooked on dope, agent orange, disabled, shell shock, we failed miserably and wanted it all to go away and they were ignored. We also caused misery to the Cambodian people by illegal crossing over and striking thier country opening the deplorable Khmer Rouge a window into rule, worst genocide in history, 1 out of every 5 people murdered. What Bush did was worse, go to war so Haliburton can get a juicy contract and left the American people to foot the bill, over 4,000 lives needless lost. He can't even travel to certain countries because he is wanted for war crimes and you guys want another warmonger just like him in office, would it take a ton a bricks to wake you up?

[mikede]

Originally Posted by fairemily

Palin approved Tea Party ladies Christine O' Donnell and Nikki Haley came out in support of Romney, O' Donnell went so far as to say "anybody but Gingrich". They do not believe Gingrich is reformed and even popular Iowa pastors have spoken out that he is not sincere enough.

Pacifist Ron Paul is doing a massive 10,000 lbs. food drive and Gingrich is signing books and standing with Trump saying he will help 10 poor kids in a reality show style (that's big of them). It's no wonder devout Christians Conservatives have thier doubts about Gingrich. I still cannot believe I agreed with Karl Rove and now I am siding with the far Christian right on this, Mike should I be worried ??

http://www.politickerny.com/2011/12/...raper-of-2012/

http://ronpaulfooddrive.com/

The enemy of my enemy is my friend,, politics makes for strange bedfellows Em.
You are still cool .
But you only counted American lives lost when you said over 4000.
The total number of lives lost in that insane war was well into 6 figures.

[fairemily]

Originally Posted by mikede

The enemy of my enemy is my friend,, politics makes for strange bedfellows Em.
You are still cool .
But you only counted American lives lost when you said over 4000.
The total number of lives lost in that insane war was well into 6 figures.

I was going to wrtie the same thing, lol.

I can't stand Gingrich enough to side with the Christian Right, that's bad. It's not even fun mock him like Cain, Perry and Bachmann, he is just gross.

You are right the direct loss of American soldiers reach over 4,000, I didn't in included the innocent Iraqi civilian, the trauma to all the families, the grief caused is immense.

You might disagree but I was not opposed to going into Afghanistan years ago, I was on Taliban watch for a long time prior and felt they had to be stopped, I has more childish heroic ideals then. They were also harboring the architect of 9/11 so I felt at least it was related to the attack. I am not thrilled we are still there, Bin Laden is dead, we should just get out. It's foolish to think we can win against people who so strongly believe that there is this magical afterlife and have little value for mortal life, they will always go a step further then the rational if provoked.

[fairemily]

What is wrong with the GOP party that would push a shyster like Gingrich and not even allow a honest GOP like Roemer a chance to even participate in one of there dozens of debates. He calls out the heart of the political problem, money in politics and he is 100% right. If you take the money out and let them run on merit then we would have a very different group of candidates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blSUv...el_video_title

See Steve, I am not anti GOP, I just can't stand the how they push to pass laws that only benifit thier financial backers. Keystone Oil pipeline will make billions more for the Koch Brothers and just happens to be thrown in a deal that would help millions of Americans have a little extra for the necessities, it's not a coincidence.

http://my.firedoglake.com/robertgree...ch-industries/

[Duckman]

Closing this thread. The repub nomination choice will definitely not be Newt.