How Bush earned his National Guard ribbon - Page 2

njman2 · 08-29-2004, 06:34 PM

He wasn't lying about that. Now you can read that as slander to all American soldiers or that there were attrocities being committed by some American soldiers...in my mind it was those soldiers that were despicable.

He never had to earn the right to burn the flag. He already had it.

njman2 · 08-29-2004, 06:40 PM

okay....let's put it this way...many lower and middle class folks are making less money than they were before.

BTW...They did have electricity, television and running water etc. four years ago...3. ghz cpu's, ipod minis etc. are another matter alltogether.

donquixote04 · 08-30-2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozzy
... By that reasoning then you could have to say that since he fought for the flag, that he earned the right to burn the flag as well.

What country do you live in, ozzy? Here in the USA, we don't have to put in time in the military to "earn" the right to burn the flag. Here in the USA, we ALL have the right to burn the flag whenever it serves our purposes of political speech. (Or don't you believe in the Constitution's guarantee of free speech? After all, that's one of the freedoms that our military is designed to defend -- the right to criticize our government, and even the right to criticize our country. The founders knew that this sort of right is one of the most effective ways of making sure our country doesn't end up resembling anything totalit****n. Smart guys, those founders.)

Spawn · 08-30-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by donquixote04
What country do you live in, ozzy? Here in the USA, we don't have to put in time in the military to "earn" the right to burn the flag. Here in the USA, we ALL have the right to burn the flag whenever it serves our purposes of political speech. (Or don't you believe in the Constitution's guarantee of free speech? After all, that's one of the freedoms that our military is designed to defend -- the right to criticize our government, and even the right to criticize our country. The founders knew that this sort of right is one of the most effective ways of making sure our country doesn't end up resembling anything totalit****n. Smart guys, those founders.)

You are absolutely correct. Everybody has the right to dissent and that includes burning the flag. The one thing the flag burners may want to consider is that some people may object to their actions and there may be physical consequences involved.

jras · 08-30-2004, 06:26 PM

is that a threat?

Ozzy · 08-30-2004, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by donquixote04
The founders knew that this sort of right is one of the most effective ways of making sure our country doesn't end up resembling anything totalit****n. Smart guys, those founders.)

I love all you fucking idiots who always start with our founding fathers. Yeah those founders of ours were really something.... Like the statement that they came up with... "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL"....... Well "ALL" except ALL those slaves they kept parked in their barns.

Lets not bring those founding hypocrites into this discussion.

Cardinals · 08-30-2004, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jras
is that a threat?

If I was in the company of someone burning the American flag, that person would be in for the fight of their sorry-ass life.

donquixote04 · 08-30-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozzy
I love all you fucking idiots who always start with our founding fathers. Yeah those founders of ours were really something.... Like the statement that they came up with... "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL"....... Well "ALL" except ALL those slaves they kept parked in their barns.

Lets not bring those founding hypocrites into this discussion.

Okay, here's my question, without reference to the founders:

What country do you live in, ozzy? Here in the USA, we don't have to put in time in the military to "earn" the right to burn the flag. Here in the USA, we ALL have the right to burn the flag whenever it serves our purposes of political speech. (Or don't you believe in the Constitution's guarantee of free speech? After all, that's one of the freedoms that our military is designed to defend -- the right to criticize our government, and even the right to criticize our country.)

Now, will you address the substance of my question?

Ozzy · 08-31-2004, 03:07 AM

Go fuck yourself.

Thats expressing my free speech.

All you assholes takes that first amendment shit a bit too far sometimes. It's the reason why the KKK can march down your street and preach hatred, its the reason organizations like NAMBLA can preach about fucking young boys. Yeah, that free speech thing is a real work of art. Too bad it's 200 fucking years old and needs a bit of updating so pricks like you, NAMBLA and the KKK can't take advantage of it anymore.

donquixote04 · 08-31-2004, 10:45 AM

Well, ozzy, I'll defend your right to illustrate to everyone that your political leanings -- at least as far as free speech goes -- is about the same as Stalin, Mao, Mussilini, hitler, and every other facist I've ever heard of and read about.

justbill_redux · 08-31-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozzy
Go fuck yourself.

Thats expressing my free speech.

All you assholes takes that first amendment shit a bit too far sometimes. It's the reason why the KKK can march down your street and preach hatred, its the reason organizations like NAMBLA can preach about fucking young boys. Yeah, that free speech thing is a real work of art. Too bad it's 200 fucking years old and needs a bit of updating so pricks like you, NAMBLA and the KKK can't take advantage of it anymore.

And whose going to decide who gets the protection of the 1st amendment, you? Dont think so. If Bush and Ashcroft had their way places like UG and others wouldn't be around, think about that when you make assine statements about 1st amendment protection.

Cardinals · 08-31-2004, 11:16 AM

Spoken like a card-carrying member of NAMBLA. Not only are you the president, but a client as well.

njman2 · 08-31-2004, 05:15 PM

You can't take the first amendment shit far enough.

Expression of ideas has to be without encumbrance. Each listener can make up their own mind if the idea has merit or not.

oddfellow4870 · 09-01-2004, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by njman2
You can't take the first amendment shit far enough.

Expression of ideas has to be without encumbrance. Each listener can make up their own mind if the idea has merit or not.

Right. This is why Kerry tried to shut down the swiftboat ads, threatened TV stations who ran the ads, pressured their book publisher and put on a full court press to shut them up.

Excuse me, but what similar, concrete evidence do you have that Bush and/or Ashcroft tried to shut down someone else's free speech? Goddamn Dems just make stuff up.

Ozzy · 09-01-2004, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by justbill_redux
If Bush and Ashcroft had their way places like UG and others wouldn't be around, think about that when you make assine statements about 1st amendment protection.

UG is almost 4 years old..... Bush and Ashcroft are in office almost 4 years....

So exactly how have they attempted to shut down UG?

OF is right.... Dems just make stuff up.

Cardinals · 09-01-2004, 03:48 AM

Justbill is a one-man propaganda machine living in a different world. Hopefully he was one of the pathetic protesters arrested so we don't have to put up with any more of his made-up stories. Maybe he can tell us about how his cell mate shoved a luscious liberal log up his butt.

njman2 · 09-01-2004, 03:57 PM

oddfellow - what stuff am I making up...go back through the thread and please find it for me...and I will gladly revert.

I'm not a dem (not am i a repub...) more of a flip-flopper.

thx.

oddfellow4870 · 09-01-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by njman2
oddfellow - what stuff am I making up...go back through the thread and please find it for me...and I will gladly revert.

I'm not a dem (not am i a repub...) more of a flip-flopper.

thx.

I try not to make personal attacks. So to be more accurate I was responding to the general spin that Ashcroft/Bush are trying to restrict freedoms (of speech in this case) when it's more of a myth than a real thing. I did not mean to imply what views you hold.

So much of politics is fear and hope.

Cardinals · 09-01-2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by njman2
I'm not a dem (not am i a repub...) more of a flip-flopper.

Is that you Kerry?

Or could it be McGreevey? No, couldn't be. He had a floppy flipper.

njman2 · 09-01-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oddfellow4870

...

So much of politics is fear and hope.

Agreed 100%. You cannot know the future until it happens. So hope and fear are what politicians have to work with.

njman2 · 09-01-2004, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardinals
Is that you Kerry?

Or could it be McGreevey? No, couldn't be. He had a floppy flipper.

prolific little one liner aint ya...

we've got the same number of posts...but you've been registered less than a month.

I choose to look at the candidates and the platforms and do not really decide till the last minute.

Not sure how my filpper or is that flopper is involved....well it is...I'd decide immediately for a candidate who adovcated legalization of mj and prostitution.

James1701 · 09-01-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozzy
Like it or not... all recounts show that Bush did in fact win the election.

No he didn't. The Media Consortium hired the National Opinion Research Center to examine 175,010 ballots that were never counted in Florida. The investigation took 8 months and cost $900,000. No matter what standard for judging ballots is applied, Gore wins.

Certified by Katherine Harris
Gore Gain 0
Gore Deficit or Lead -537

Valid votes found after certification
Gore Gain +59
Gore Deficit or Lead -478

Correctly marked paper ballots
Gore Gain +493
Gore Deficit or Lead +15

Full punches
Gore Gain +100
Gore Deficit or Lead +115

Poorly marked paper ballot
Gore Gain +309
Gore Deficit or Lead +424

3-corner chads
Gore Gain -208
Gore Deficit or Lead +216

2-corner chads
Gore Gain -111
Gore Deficit or Lead +105

1-corner chads
Gore Gain -45
Gore Deficit or Lead +60

Dimples with sunlight
Gore Gain +88
Gore Deficit or Lead +148

Dimples
Gore Gain -41
Gore Deficit or Lead +107

http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/index.asp

Cardinals · 09-02-2004, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James1701
No matter what standard for judging ballots is applied, Gore wins.

And thank God he didn't.

Ozzy · 09-02-2004, 04:19 AM

Nope, you're wrong...

By every known recount... Bush won.

oddfellow4870 · 09-02-2004, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James1701
No he didn't. The Media Consortium hired the National Opinion Research Center to examine 175,010 ballots that were never counted in Florida. The investigation took 8 months and cost $900,000. No matter what standard for judging ballots is applied, Gore wins.

Normally, I don't rely on the mainstream press to inform me, but in this case, if such a result occured, I would have heard of it. I live in CT, so believe me, I would have heard this report. The one I did see said that in 3 of 4 methods used, Bush won (that's the Hartford Courant, not a conservative rag).

You can play "what - ifs" till the cows come home. How about all those folks who didn't go to polls in Northern Fla because the TV news reported early that Gore was projected to win? How about all those Military ballots that weren't counted? Changes in either of those occasions would have given Bush more votes.

If Gore had won his home state, FLA would not have mattered.

Sore / Loserman 2000 is in the past .....

Mr. User Name · 09-02-2004, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James1701
No matter what standard for judging ballots is applied, Gore wins.

This is an outright lie!

One of the great techniques of the consulting trade is to provide a plethora of detail when one has little or no real evidence to support a desired conclusion. James has taken this practice of deception to new heights (or depths, depending upon one’s viewpoint).
He has begun by citing the ‘Media Project’ made up of the NY Times, the Wash. Post, the L.A. Times, the Wall St. Journal and several others.
He then goes on to attribute the actual study to the National Opinion Research Center, an organization with impeccably unbiased cr****tials. He even provides a link to their site.
He then really impresses us with the fact that the study cost $900,000.
If one were to follow the link provided he could not find any of the detail cited in James’ fabricated recount. It just ain’t there.
Those of us with functioning brain cells will remember that the actual results of the study were published several years ago by the sponsoring organizations. Their uniform report is simple and understandable:
by every account, Bush won !

Mr. User Name · 09-02-2004, 06:51 AM

Anyone still believing the purported recount presented by James needs to replace the 537 plurality with the 1,665 margin determined by The Miami Herald and USA Today recount as reported by PBS.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/me...count_4-3.html

Casper · 09-02-2004, 07:28 AM

http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/resu...rt_results.zip

Sub_Total 2,911,215 2,911,417
Fed_Abs 1,575 836
Total 2,912,790 2,912,253
Percent 48.80% 48.80%

DIRECTLY from the link posted by James1701. First column Bush, second column Gore.

Ok so where do you see that Gore won the popular vote?

Ozzy · 09-02-2004, 10:53 AM

Didn't they also toss a whole shit load of overseas (military) ballots because they were late coming in or something..... Bush would have received a vast majority of those and the margin would have been even greater. But Dems don't want to discuss those... just those hanging fucking chads.

Fact is they both lost votes because of various issues. Nothing is fucking perfect and no one ever expected something this close that perfection would have actually mattered.

Bush won, Gore lost.... get over it already. Fucking crybabies.

neverenough · 09-02-2004, 07:54 PM

I'm just a dumb canadian but I thought Cheeny won or at least that is what the junta is telling them

08-31-2004, 10:45 AM	#40
donquixote04 Gold Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,174 vCash: 500	Well, ozzy, I'll defend your right to illustrate to everyone that your political leanings -- at least as far as free speech goes -- is about the same as Stalin, Mao, Mussilini, hitler, and every other facist I've ever heard of and read about. Last edited by donquixote04; 08-31-2004 at 10:46 AM..

08-29-2004, 06:34 PM	#31
njman2 Silver Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 325 vCash: 500	He wasn't lying about that. Now you can read that as slander to all American soldiers or that there were attrocities being committed by some American soldiers...in my mind it was those soldiers that were despicable. He never had to earn the right to burn the flag. He already had it.

08-29-2004, 06:40 PM	#32
njman2 Silver Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 325 vCash: 500	okay....let's put it this way...many lower and middle class folks are making less money than they were before. BTW...They did have electricity, television and running water etc. four years ago...3. ghz cpu's, ipod minis etc. are another matter alltogether.

08-30-2004, 06:26 PM	#35
jras Gold Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 3,102 vCash: 500	is that a threat?

08-31-2004, 03:07 AM	#39
Ozzy Gold Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 15,438 vCash: 500	Go fuck yourself. Thats expressing my free speech. All you assholes takes that first amendment shit a bit too far sometimes. It's the reason why the KKK can march down your street and preach hatred, its the reason organizations like NAMBLA can preach about fucking young boys. Yeah, that free speech thing is a real work of art. Too bad it's 200 fucking years old and needs a bit of updating so pricks like you, NAMBLA and the KKK can't take advantage of it anymore.

08-31-2004, 11:16 AM	#42
Cardinals Silver Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 112 vCash: 500	Spoken like a card-carrying member of NAMBLA. Not only are you the president, but a client as well.

08-31-2004, 05:15 PM	#43
njman2 Silver Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 325 vCash: 500	You can't take the first amendment shit far enough. Expression of ideas has to be without encumbrance. Each listener can make up their own mind if the idea has merit or not.

09-01-2004, 03:48 AM	#46
Cardinals Silver Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 112 vCash: 500	Justbill is a one-man propaganda machine living in a different world. Hopefully he was one of the pathetic protesters arrested so we don't have to put up with any more of his made-up stories. Maybe he can tell us about how his cell mate shoved a luscious liberal log up his butt.

09-01-2004, 03:57 PM	#47
njman2 Silver Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 325 vCash: 500	oddfellow - what stuff am I making up...go back through the thread and please find it for me...and I will gladly revert. I'm not a dem (not am i a repub...) more of a flip-flopper. thx.

09-02-2004, 04:19 AM	#54
Ozzy Gold Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 15,438 vCash: 500	Nope, you're wrong... By every known recount... Bush won.

09-02-2004, 06:51 AM	#57
Mr. User Name Gold Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,955 vCash: 500	Anyone still believing the purported recount presented by James needs to replace the 537 plurality with the 1,665 margin determined by The Miami Herald and USA Today recount as reported by PBS. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/me...count_4-3.html

09-02-2004, 07:28 AM	#58
Casper Gold Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 8,268 vCash: 500	http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/resu...rt_results.zip Sub_Total 2,911,215 2,911,417 Fed_Abs 1,575 836 Total 2,912,790 2,912,253 Percent 48.80% 48.80% DIRECTLY from the link posted by James1701. First column Bush, second column Gore. Ok so where do you see that Gore won the popular vote?

09-02-2004, 10:53 AM	#59
Ozzy Gold Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 15,438 vCash: 500	Didn't they also toss a whole shit load of overseas (military) ballots because they were late coming in or something..... Bush would have received a vast majority of those and the margin would have been even greater. But Dems don't want to discuss those... just those hanging fucking chads. Fact is they both lost votes because of various issues. Nothing is fucking perfect and no one ever expected something this close that perfection would have actually mattered. Bush won, Gore lost.... get over it already. Fucking crybabies.

09-02-2004, 07:54 PM	#60
neverenough Bronze Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4 vCash: 500	I'm just a dumb canadian but I thought Cheeny won or at least that is what the junta is telling them