Windows XP starting to go bad

[elmo16]

Windows XP is starting to go bad. The problem isn't with Windows XP itself, but all the security software you have to use with it. Applications that run in Windows Vista interact with the operating system on a much higher level which prevents malware from doing damage to your computer. Applications running on Windows XP, on the other hand, react with that OS on a much lower level, which helps XP run faster with a much smaller foot print. The problem is that current security software considers these XP system calls to be worms, spyware and viruses and stops many applications from operating properly.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by elmo16

Windows XP is starting to go bad. The problem isn't with Windows XP itself, but all the security software you have to use with it. Applications that run in Windows Vista interact with the operating system on a much higher level which prevents malware from doing damage to your computer. Applications running on Windows XP, on the other hand, react with that OS on a much lower level, which helps XP run faster with a much smaller foot print. The problem is that current security software considers these XP system calls to be worms, spyware and viruses and stops many applications from operating properly.

???

Where did you get this idea, Elmo?

It is actually the exact opposite.

In Vista Microsoft has created well defined levels of operations which keep much software from interacting directly with the kernal, thus making it more difficult to infect the system The problem is that it is a GREAT idea in theory but MS's implementation leaves a bit to be desired. The result is apps that run much slower than on XP even when run on systems with higher clock speeds.

In general a system running the same apps on XP as on Vista, using a unit with the same overall specifications, will run faster on the system with XP as the OS.

A system using Windows XP Service Pack 3, with the latest security patches, with decent firewall [the free version of Zone Alarm works just fine], anti-virus [the free version of AVG works well] and anti-malware [I'm not crazy about any of the free versions of of anti-malware, Adware is sort of OK, but Spyware Doctor is much better and doesn't cost that much], works very well and with a little knowledge about how to maintain runs anything you want to run with little trouble and remains fast doing it.

[Thorn]

BTW, MS is going on a heavy ad blitz to push the value of Vista over XP. They are very afraid that Vista, like Windows Me, is going to cost them market share before they can get Windows 7 [its working title] out the door.

There is a reason they extended services for XP into 2014.

Please note in these ads the very heavy handed references to the look and feel of Vista and all its pretty do-dads. Very little, if anything, as to how it is better at handling apps, etc. Because that would be a provable lie.

No one doubts the "pretty" factor of Vista's aero 3D GUI. Work with it for 30 minutes though and its old news. Then its, "Where did my speed go. I want my speed back. Why is there no driver support of my printer, label maker, etc, etc, etc?"

There is really only two reasons to run Vista. 1) If you are working with a multi-threaded software specifically tuned for 64 Bit Vista, like Photoshop, or, 2) Playing a game which truly requires DirectX 10 support.

At this time that's pretty much it.

[biohazard]

Are they still selling XP on New Computers?

[Lou Grant]

If you do a new install, load the system with all your programs that you regularly use. Once you have it configured the way you like, make a disk image using Ghost or Acropolis. This way, if it gets corrupted again, it is easier to insert the disk and walk away rather than hover over the reinstall of the OS and your favorite programs. I did this for my office when I recently bought a bunch of off-lease systems and wanted them all on the same page.

[akm495]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Are they still selling XP on New Computers?

No. Here is the anouncement MS made in June.

Windows XP Officially Retired By Microsoft


Microsoft will no longer make Windows XP available to large computer makers, such as Dell, Lenovo, or Hewlett-Packard, or to software retailers.

By Paul McDougall
InformationWeek
June 30, 2008 02:28 PM


With a few exceptions, Windows XP will be unavailable to computer makers and retail shoppers after Monday -- a fact that will force many Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT) PC users to migrate to the widely maligned Vista operating system or wait until the arrival of Windows 7 in 2010 to upgrade their systems.
Implementing a move that's been planned for months, Microsoft will no longer make Windows XP available to large computer makers, such as Dell, Lenovo, or Hewlett-Packard, or to software retailers, after June 30. It will continue to offer the OS to "system builders," that is, small, independent PC makers, through July of next year.


More Windows InsightsWhite PapersThe New Microsoft IT Pro Certifications and Exams Exchange Server 2007: What To Expect Microsoft also said it would make Windows XP available to builders of ultra-low-cost PCs and laptops, such as Asus, until 2010. It's widely seen as an attempt to prevent Linux from establishing a beachhead in emerging markets.
Also, some PC makers, including Dell (Dell), are giving customers continued access to XP for an indefinite period if they buy certain models of Vista-based computers. A loophole in Microsoft's licensing terms lets users of its most current operating system "downgrade" to a previous version at no additional cost.

For the most part, however, Monday marks XP's last official day on the market after a seven-year run, as Microsoft ceases bulk shipments and retail sales of Windows XP Professional, Home, Media Center, and Tablet PC edition.

Some XP diehards aren't giving up their OS without a fight. A petition to save XP launched by a computer industry publication has so far drawn more than 210,000 online signatures.

Fueling the fight is the fact that many computer users have given XP's successor, Windows Vista, the thumbs down. Many have balked at Vista's cost, resource requirements, and lack of compatibility with older software.

Acknowledging that many customers won't be moving off XP anytime soon, Microsoft recently said it would extend support for the OS until 2014.

[biohazard]

Originally Posted by Lou Grant

If you do a new install, load the system with all your programs that you regularly use. Once you have it configured the way you like, make a disk image using Ghost or Acropolis. This way, if it gets corrupted again, it is easier to insert the disk and walk away rather than hover over the reinstall of the OS and your favorite programs. I did this for my office when I recently bought a bunch of off-lease systems and wanted them all on the same page.

I use Carbonite and had a system crash, it restored almost everything i only had to download two programs.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by Lou Grant

If you do a new install, load the system with all your programs that you regularly use. Once you have it configured the way you like, make a disk image using Ghost or Acropolis. This way, if it gets corrupted again, it is easier to insert the disk and walk away rather than hover over the reinstall of the OS and your favorite programs. I did this for my office when I recently bought a bunch of off-lease systems and wanted them all on the same page.

I add a portable USB-HD to that mix. Two versions of the install and apps sit on it.

One has the drivers for my main system as well. The other is generic and will create a look alike on any Windows XP system regardless of the equipment/peripherals it has within the box.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Are they still selling XP on New Computers?

Yes and no.

Officially, no. Unofficially you can still get OEM versions of XP quite easily.

[elmo16]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Are they still selling XP on New Computers?

You can buy a Dell Small/Medium size Business computer, order your new computer with Vista Business Edition. It will come with Windows XP Professional preinstalled and Windows Vista Business Edition on a DVD.

[elmo16]

Originally Posted by Thorn

???

Where did you get this idea, Elmo?

It is actually the exact opposite.

In Vista Microsoft has created well defined levels of operations which keep much software from interacting directly with the kernal, thus making it more difficult to infect the system The problem is that it is a GREAT idea in theory but MS's implementation leaves a bit to be desired. The result is apps that run much slower than on XP even when run on systems with higher clock speeds.

In general a system running the same apps on XP as on Vista, using a unit with the same overall specifications, will run faster on the system with XP as the OS.

A system using Windows XP Service Pack 3, with the latest security patches, with decent firewall [the free version of Zone Alarm works just fine], anti-virus [the free version of AVG works well] and anti-malware [I'm not crazy about any of the free versions of of anti-malware, Adware is sort of OK, but Spyware Doctor is much better and doesn't cost that much], works very well and with a little knowledge about how to maintain runs anything you want to run with little trouble and remains fast doing it.

It’s the very fact that Windows XP allows applications to call kernel functions directly is causing these problems. Security software like PC Tools Spyware Doctor thinks that any call to these kernel functions directly must be some sort of malware. For instance defrag software which reads and writes directly through the kernel is considered malware, and won’t work properly. Video games that writes directly to the video card and plays music and sound effects directly through the sound card won’t work properly in XP. This also applies to software like AutoCad and certain versions of Photoshop and programs like Photoshop that write directly to the video system won’t work with Spyware Doctor (actually, it’s the real time scanner “On Guard” that causes these problems). Trend Micro PC-cilin has also caused me problems.

[elmo16]

By the way, please don't think I'm shilling for or against XP or Vista (I could care less). I'm just relating experiences I've had with XP and security software.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by elmo16

It’s the very fact that Windows XP allows applications to call kernel functions directly is causing these problems. Security software like PC Tools Spyware Doctor thinks that any call to these kernel functions directly must be some sort of malware. For instance defrag software which reads and writes directly through the kernel is considered malware, and won’t work properly. Video games that writes directly to the video card and plays music and sound effects directly through the sound card won’t work properly in XP. This also applies to software like AutoCad and certain versions of Photoshop and programs like Photoshop that write directly to the video system won’t work with Spyware Doctor (actually, it’s the real time scanner “On Guard” that causes these problems). Trend Micro PC-cilin has also caused me problems.

That is what I meant by, "with a little knowledge about how to maintain". Those software's all have the ability to white list apps and give permissions. A little fine tuning removes all the problems.

I use a the full Adobe platform [CS3] and have no problems at all after giving the proper permissions in my firewall and malware programs. Same with my defrager of choice. Same with any game I have calling the vid or sound cards directly.

All just a matter of fine tuning.

What I will admit to is that something is needed for the end user who has none of those abilities and doesn't wish to acquire them.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by elmo16

By the way, please don't think I'm shilling for or against XP or Vista (I could care less). I'm just relating experiences I've had with XP and security software.

I don't. I know you are simply expressing an opinion. Same as myself.

[xcalibur]

No one can blame Microsoft for these types of issues. The issue is with the third party software being compatible or not compatible. Some security software are PIA with excessive security. Like Kaspersky, will pop up an alert every time a program tries to access a server or an update if you didn't setup correctly and allow permissions. And make sure you update your computer regularly via Windows update so you have the latest security updates and drives for your computer.

I have heard many whine over Vista but this is the first time for XP. Service Pack 1 did a lot to improve the stability and reliability of Vista. With Windows 7 which is suppose to come out in 2009/10 will end vista and xp. from what I have experienced so far at this early stage must say it's pretty impressive. Thats all I can say!

[elmo16]

Originally Posted by Thorn

That is what I meant by, "with a little knowledge about how to maintain". Those software's all have the ability to white list apps and give permissions. A little fine tuning removes all the problems.

I use a the full Adobe platform [CS3] and have no problems at all after giving the proper permissions in my firewall and malware programs. Same with my defrager of choice. Same with any game I have calling the vid or sound cards directly.

All just a matter of fine tuning.

What I will admit to is that something is needed for the end user who has none of those abilities and doesn't wish to acquire them.

I’ve done that. I went through several programs that I want to use without turning Spyware Doctor off. I included all the .exe files and the .dll files in the directory of the application’s folder as exceptions, but the applications call .dlls in System32 folder and in other folders. I can’t include my entire c: drive in the list of Spyware Doctor’s exceptions. Security software makers don’t want to help as they see XP as a dying OS. The best solution is the use XP off line with all security software turned off.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by elmo16

I’ve done that. I went through several programs that I want to use without turning Spyware Doctor off. I included all the .exe files and the .dll files in the directory of the application’s folder as exceptions, but the applications call .dlls in System32 folder and in other folders. I can’t include my entire c: drive in the list of Spyware Doctor’s exceptions. Security software makers don’t want to help as they see XP as a dying OS. The best solution is the use XP off line with all security software turned off.

Then I know precisely what your problem is and it's not Windows. The problem is SWD doesn't play well with certain other security applications. They are well aware of it and haven't fixed the problem.

Work arounds and kludges are all over the net if you Google them.

Also, switching to a suite like Norton Internet Security or Norton 360 elevates those problems immediately as the components all work seamlessly with each other since the come from the same coding source, unlike mix and match software lash ups.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by elmo16

The best solution is the use XP off line with all security software turned off.

One of the kludges is to create a user where all internet functions are turned off and pull that user up when you want to work with those specific applications.

Personally I see that as a solution that isn't a solution.

[xcalibur]

Originally Posted by Thorn

Then I know precisely what your problem is and it's not Windows. The problem is SWD doesn't play well with certain other security applications. They are well aware of it and haven't fixed the problem.

Work arounds and kludges are all over the net if you Google them.

Also, switching to a suite like Norton Internet Security or Norton 360 elevates those problems immediately as the components all work seamlessly with each other since the come from the same coding source, unlike mix and match software lash ups.

Exactly I have been using Norton all my life and never been a victim of pw loss or virus attack....i don't know much about SWD but it sounds like a spyware program even though it's purpose is to save from spyware.

Elmo: why don't you try Ad-Aware insted of this SWD.

http://lavasoft.com/products/ad_aware_free.php

[elmo16]

Originally Posted by xcalibur

Exactly I have been using Norton all my life and never been a victim of pw loss or virus attack....i don't know much about SWD but it sounds like a spyware program even though it's purpose is to save from spyware.

Elmo: why don't you try Ad-Aware insted of this SWD.

http://lavasoft.com/products/ad_aware_free.php

Ad-Aware is like Spyware Doctor without the real time scanning. I used it, and it doesn't work as well as Spyware Doctor, although that was years ago. Perhaps the latest version is better.

[elmo16]

Originally Posted by Thorn

Then I know precisely what your problem is and it's not Windows. The problem is SWD doesn't play well with certain other security applications. They are well aware of it and haven't fixed the problem.

Work arounds and kludges are all over the net if you Google them.

Also, switching to a suite like Norton Internet Security or Norton 360 elevates those problems immediately as the components all work seamlessly with each other since the come from the same coding source, unlike mix and match software lash ups.

On my XP computer, I use anti-spyware, anti-virus and firewall and the're all made by PC Tools, so they should all work together.