The Best Ever!!!

[wimpy]

Originally posted by occasionalhobbyist


BUT.... If you apply this reasoning of comparing them with their contemporaries, which I completely accept, the current crop of top pitchers--guys like Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Clemens and Mussina--look like absolute locks for the Hall and, perhaps All Time Greatest. This because of the dilution of pitching quality due to expansion. Although, IMHO, today's starters are in such peak physical condition, they probably would've dominated in any era thus far.

To the list of great lefty pitchers, I add... Babe Ruth.

I think Mussina needs atleast two 20 win seasons before we start talking Hall of Fame. I believe any pitcher who can win between 240&250 with the situational managing and the five man rotation deserves HOF status. With that said please don't forget Maddux & Glavine.

I look at Mussina as a Don Sutton type. Very consistent would get you that 15-17 wins a year. But when you think he was in the same era as Palmer, Seaver, Carlton...He could not hold any of theirs jock. same goes for Niekro and Perry. They acheived HOF because they could pitch till 43.

[Ozzy]

not a single team showed any major interest in barry during the off season when he was a free agent...... because even THEY know what he is.


think about this......... what did A-Rod and his 50 hr's do in texas last year, and what did seatle do without him?





slightly off topic...
patrick ewing is another example of a loser.

[Ozzy]

Don Sutton Niekro and Perry... none of them belong in the HOF.



perry got caugt cheating (several times) and he's in.... and rose they keep out.

[Lemurrush]

Originally posted by occasionalhobbyist
BUT.... If you apply this reasoning of comparing them with their contemporaries, which I completely accept, the current crop of top pitchers--guys like Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Clemens and Mussina--look like absolute locks for the Hall and, perhaps All Time Greatest. This because of the dilution of pitching quality due to expansion. Although, IMHO, today's starters are in such peak physical condition, they probably would've dominated in any era thus far.

To the list of great lefty pitchers, I add... Babe Ruth.

Ruth is an excellent addition...but, he can only make my team at one position (although, I did take Cobb in RF) hmmmm...

Johnson - I said before I think Randy is VERY close to Koufax...

Martinez...maybe...there have been a lot of good RHP through the years...

Clemens -- even less of a maybe...yes...he's dominant, but his ERA (esp. as a Yankee) has never been anything special. Lots of people made a fuss over his W/L last year...to me -- look at runners per 9 innings...or WHIP...that will tell you what you need to know...

Based on that - Martinez, Schilling, Johnson...all are DOMINANT...Clemens is just good. And Mussina...while VERY consistent, I definitely like the comparison to Don Sutton...hell...maybe even Rick Reuschel...

Lemur

[wimpy]

Oz,

I know that. But when you talk about the best ever. Individual stats count. If post-season were the case, did you ever see what Ted Williams batted in the one world series he got to. Not much better than Bonds.

Put in perspective, just because a provider has nice body, sicks great dick and can fuck like a rabbit doesmean I want to marry her!

[Ozzy]

notice i didn't put williams in my line up. not because of his one post season but because he wasn't a team player. also notice that williams only made it to one world series..... something bonds will never do.

[SkellyChamp]

Originally posted by Ozzy
bobby bo single handedly pulled that '92 met team into the toilet with him.

ps... how come not a single team showed any major interest in barry during the off season when he was a free agent...... because even THEY know what he is.

How dare you dis my man Vince Coleman like that. Give the man credit too.

Bonds - I think the fact that he no team wanted to pay a soon to be 38 year old player close to $20 mil per year for 3-5 years had more to do with no suitors than the fact that he is an asshole and not a team player. If he was 32 or even 35 he would have gotten lots of interest notwithstanding. But he is at the age now where skills can diminish very quickly. (With all due respect to Carlos Baerga who holds the record for youngest age to diminishing skills).


Lemurrush - There is always going to be a bigger pool of righties than lefties to choose from. And I'm certainly in agreement that Koufax was a great pitcher those four years and that he retired very early. But the fact is he did and there is no actual acheivement to look at other than what he did. And 4 years is not enough to qualify for the greatest ever. Not when you have Hubbell, Spahn, Carlton, Ford et. al.

[Ozzy]

SC...

but didn't Vince and brett (saberhagen) have good reps before they ran into bobby in the locker room. from what i heard both had the "bobby made me do it" excuse when they got in trouble. an over rated manager had a lot to do with that fiasco as well.

now can someone explain why they brought back bobby last year?


Carlos Baerga.... was it really diminishing skills that did him in or just that he became a mental case.

[robnotbob]

Maybe that's why Baerga's nickname was "Cabeza" when he was with the Mets.

[Stecchino]

That boy did have a big head, lol.

On another note, i can't believe this Ruben Sierra sh*t. (talk about coming full circle)