600 bucks aint what it used to be.

Discussion in 'New York' started by BigMadM, Jul 29, 2006.

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  1. moneyshotsnj

    moneyshotsnj

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    961
    Or my self image for that matter. When ever I read vermeer I end up feeling like a not so funny guy with a little dick.
  2. ForFun

    ForFun

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    164
    Do you think degrading comments like this will help either Miki's self image, or your image?
  3. vermeer

    vermeer

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    2,368
    bitch, I got $100 for you. Get ready to spread those sagging ass cheek apart.

  4. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    I think we had that at one point and it didn't do very well?
  5. BigMadM

    BigMadM Linoleum

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    having said that, in my final years doing this shit, only because mother nature decided I shouldnt be doing this so much anymore, Im in themarket again for someone that could tolerate an old fuck like me every week.

    Im thnking maybe Ill take an ad out here with slinky, then I think Ill be able to post contact info......that might be a first here, and come to think of it, a great way to generate revenue on this board. Men looking for sugarbabies....why not?

    hey slinky, there is a thread here how can suggest things to benefit UG, how about a advertising section for men, where they can advertise for sugar babies or other things they are specifically looking for? since its kinda like looking for only a one decent hit, but will be viewed by many womenn, a fee of lets say 100 per ad, sounds reasonable, 150, and maybe it will generate alot of fees. Anyone?
  6. BigMadM

    BigMadM Linoleum

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    11,013
    greyfox, youre right, expecting something in return, well, its nor realistic, so I dont.
    I dont think negotiating a fee for an extended session falls into the expectation of something in return.
    Its the understanding and trust, that has been developed by two people over years that should make it understood that for one, one fucking 3 hour session, 150 dollars shouldnt put a dent into the relationship.
    Please, would everyone stop comparing this to a surgeon or an attorney. This is dicksucking, there is no college needed for this, no school loans to pay off for this skill. And like one party learned, there are 10 giurls willing to accept the decent fee of 600, and there are not that many clients willing to be as generous or loyal, very few clients, cause mose clients crave variety, constantly, and nobody raises these issues. Just the hey, bmm lent a girl 2 grand, he now thinks she owes him her soul......no fucking way.

    I tried to bring out a point, and it was met with such cyniscism, I dont know how to spell that fucking word, anyway, lilke there is an underlying motive in everything a hobbyist does.
    Well, theres a big point. Most of the girls only meet men like that, and thats the reason they think all men in this hobby are like that.
    Well, not all of them, after years of appts, I never found a girl asking a favor as something out of the box, or something so far fetched.
    So many men here, have taken girls out to dinners, lunches, and spent 10 times in the past 4 years what Ive loaned out, and always been repaid.

    I lent one girl from CL, 250 dollars, she was stuck in another country, and she was desperate. I was seeing her for 6-8 months every week.
    I was not paying her alot of money, and she had no limitations, actually seemed like she was enjoying the sex almost as much as me, but I dont delude myself that much, but at least it seemed like that.
    She got back, she never saw me again, she called and apologized, but her new bf, she just didnt want to cheat on him, and she said as soon as she started her new job, shed give me 20 bucks a week till she was paid.
    When she started working, she *****ed me again, and promised she would start paying the loan back.
    I declined the money, she didnt try to get away with anything, she was willing to pay me back, and I figured I helped someone out when she had no where else to turn, and for that, I know she was greatful.
    We still ***** each other every few months to see how each of us are doing.
    She was worth more than she charged me, and I even told her, but she was happy with a 400 dollar fee. (that was unlilmited time, usually around 3-4 hours)
    did I have some motive in mind when I wired her the money?
    Yep, I wanted to make sure she got home ok, that was about it, and yes, I was mad the first time she stood me up and then called said she just couldnt do it, but I think I realized she made one of the best decisions in her lilfe that day not to resort back to prostitution to better her life.

    My major problem is, and always has been, I never viewed most escorts or working girls and lowlifes or degenerates, at least the ones I saw.
    I saw them as women who were at the end of their ropes, and this was the only way they could keep their lives together.
    Ofcourse, Id exploit that. Im no innocent here, or hypocrit.
    Id take full advantage, but decency was always a factor in play.
    Guilt was another factor, something that clings to me all the time.
    I always wonder how many girls lives I contributed too that have forced them to lose any self respect they had and cave in for money for certain demands.
    Im no hypocrit, Ive done it all, experienced alot, but that doesnt mean when I lend a girl money, it has anything else to do with anything other than I know her, so what shes an escort, I know her in my secret life, and she needed a favor.

    Thats all this all was about. I asked for a favor. I did 10 favors, I expected one favor. It didnt happen. So one girl lost her gold client. Thats it.
    Its pretty likely the session after this one, I would have made it up and topped off the session with a few more bucks till I paid her in full for the previous one I was short. She knows it, I know it, and anyone with half a brain knows it.

    so like I said in the beginning, young escorts, be as kind to your clilents as they are to you, you will reap the benefits, and it will make this lile you chose, alot easier if the men you deal with are kind, gentle and respectful.
  7. justlooking

    justlooking

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    Me, too.
  8. greyfox

    greyfox

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    BMM-If you're generous,you're generous whatever the reason and regardless of having a conscious or subconscious ulterior motive.But if you expect gratitude or reciprocity you will invariably be disappointed.I've found generosity is a one way street even with family and long time friends.Most of the girls you've helped have probably been barely scraping by for their entire lives,so fuhgeddaboudit.They may appreciate your assistance and resent it.We are conflicted.They are conflicted and may act out at any moment.

    Just remember,greyfox loves ya'.

    This may be true for the majority of guys who act this way with you,or the majority of johns in general,but,it's surely not the only motivation for making a gift/loan.

    jl-There's an obvious difference between donating money to Partnership for a Drug Free America and paying for rehab for a friend/colleague who fell off the wagon.A charitable contribution is impersonal.You may be able and demand to have a stringent definition of the terms of your whoring contract*.A lot of us have more nebulous ideas of the terms of the contract or,in fact,wouldn't ever have the words "commercial sex" and "contract" appear in the same thought ballon next to our cartoon.

    *If the stripper torches the cash with a cigarette lighter while it's still in your hand have you cheated?Has she committed a felony?Would ever you have sex with a girl who smokes?

    You take a lot of risks,amigo.And you know the cliche:
    Play safe.
  9. fairemily

    fairemily

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    7,440

    I don't think we are saying that "hookers" or even "Johns" are sub-species but that you are a rare kind of man who is involved in this industry. I think that has been established often in this thread. More often than not any exchange of money, gift, even barters can turn a nice working relationship into a helllish experience. You are one man or women out of many that is the exception. You understand the kind of women who are working in this buisness and it is appreciated.
  10. BigMadM

    BigMadM Linoleum

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    I once argued a 25 dollar parking ticket in court, and won.

    That didnt mean the next day I charged someone 300 bucks an hour to represent them in their murder trial, although IM good, I still need the license to practice.

    Unless subangel and others, are suggesting that I should view hookers as a subspecies of human, cause if a friend was in need, and I could help him for a month from getting evicted and living on the street with his kids, Id do it.
    So, in the end, I think I answered my own question, no, they are human, but its against any moral or normal set of rules we go by when one deals with a hooker. No loans, no friendship, no nothing, just suck my dick, cause youre a whore, and if youre really good, Ill toss in an extra 3 dollars.

    See, Im sorry to the board, Im not that guy.

    I appreciate the difficulty most young women have in this profession, and when they treat me nice every single time, its not that I need another friend, or need any emotional bonds, its just that they are polite, and act friendly, I never asked for anything extra, I was always happy with what they offered.
    After years of seeing the same girl, jeezuz, I think we begin both to base alot of the escort/client thing on trust, and trust brings better service, ofcourse it does, and comfort level goes to the max. At that level of trust and comfort, I guess one feels that asking for money is not an abuse of the relationship, its just asking one person you trust and feel comfortable with being around, for a favor.....whey does everything have to be reduced to whore/john. I got news for everyone, Im a man first, a lowlife john second.
    The girls I see are women first, an escort second.

    I guess some of us, and some of them, cant keep the two indefinitely seperated when you become so at ease with another human, even if you met through this shitty profession....IM ranting, I hope I got at least a tiny bit of what Im thinking across.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  11. greyfox

    greyfox

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    I've done it and it's not strictly business.It's not just control either and I've never done it without explicit solicitation.It's a form of penance.I'm a guilt ridden man.I always consider these loans as gifts regardless of what we call them,and if the recipient wants to consider it a loan and pay it off in cash or services I usually accept the repayment without reservation.I don't necessarily terminate the relationship as jl would nor expect reciprocal accommodation as BMM would.I get payback less than 50% of the time.

    I'm not denying that control may be the most common motivation for doing it.I'm just saying that there is more complicated psychopathology which may be underlying this behavior.
  12. SubmissiveAngel

    SubmissiveAngel

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    here you go again with your wacky "his" vs. "hers" thinking. i never said either was a victim.

    i said that BMM is NOT a victim, although he speaks of himself as if he is; a “gentle old sweet man”, “nobody special” who is 'let down so hard', etc etc.
  13. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    Well, in this case I'm not sure she's using the money as a control (I think it's a lot more compicated than that). But that is my point about when other girls do it: it's not a business decision, it's a control issue. And when you started with your first post in this thread:

    You bred my saying that you were throwing up a smokescreen by trying to say that it's no different than most other professions. My point was that it's not the same in most other professions, because most other professions don't have the self worth/control issues over clients as hookers have with theirs. I'm not saying there are no control issues with other professions/trades, but what I am saying is that it is not anywhere nearly as TOTALLY PERVASIVE as in this business. And that's why I keep saying that you are avoiding talking about this issue.
  14. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    It may be, but it's hard for me to consider the hooker the victim when a guy she asks for a loan provides it to her (you're the one who used the word "victim").

    Although I'm not even sure about that, because gifts don't "die" the say after they are given, they "live" forever. When a girl pays back the loan, even if the guy thinks he still "owes her something", she can rightfully think "I paid back that loan". However, since the gift never gets "paid back", it's held over her head until the relationship ends. The irony, to some extent then, is that the least insidious of the three is what on first blush seems the most insidious: when a guy directly offers the girl a specific sum to do something she doesn't want to do.
  15. SubmissiveAngel

    SubmissiveAngel

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    839
    to the extent that the loans foster dependency, and they keep her hooked in to seeing him long enough to work off the debt, i think a loan may be an even more insideous form of control than a gift.
  16. SubmissiveAngel

    SubmissiveAngel

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    839
    just to annoy slinky by throwing in another piece of this whole pie:

    as much as BMM used money to create power in his relationship with Ms. Disappointing, she also used money to maintain her own control. by saying no to his request for a special rate, she was saying (not in a nasty way!) "No, i don't depend on you. you don't control things here."

    of course, this is just the most simple distillation of a whole lotta complex human stuff. my point is that both parties are using the money for control. this is a large reason why i am so inflexible about my fees - i have control issues (NO!) and i don't ever want to depend on anyone or owe anyone anything. (funny, ain't it, coming from a sub...)
  17. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    There's a fine line here: I agree that this happens (a lot), but it's not always the case. And I think the thing which is important to note in this particular case (and a lot of cases), is when it's not "gifts" of extra $ propogated by the guys, but loan requests from the girls. I see a HUGE difference. While I agree with jl that it still is a source of problems, I see it as a very different thing than what SA describes as her "problem clients".
  18. SubmissiveAngel

    SubmissiveAngel

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    839
    of course it isn't. no matter what a guy says (even to himself) he understandably wants to feel special, appreciated, and - most of all - needed. this is the kind of guy who tells me "please, call me any time you need something. i like to think that you need me." he likes it because it keeps me tied to him; any dependency on my part = control for him.

    it isn't an outright ugly or malicious thing i am describing. it's just part of the human dynamic. in a case like BMM's, he is using the money to create dependency (which is a pretty intimate dynamic, if you ask me.) at the same time, he creates almost 100% of his own problem...the inevitable let-down.

    ps. i'm not saying BMM is a bad guy! i'm just saying he is not a victim.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  19. justlooking

    justlooking

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    25,481
    Or even worse, a GIFT.

    Let's not forget, a lot of these cases aren't LOANS. They're GIFTS. Guys are showering money on these women in need. I can't believe that's a strictly, or even mostly, humanitarian impulse. And it's certainly not strictly business.
  20. justlooking

    justlooking

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    25,481
    I think slinkybender is absolutely right.