A time to kill:

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by lepke, Jul 17, 2006.

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  1. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    2,415
    Oh man, I came back and see that I have been accused by Lepke of being (gasp) anti-Semitic!

    Really? I've said that I don't like all Jews? What post was that in? I've said that only Israel is at fault in the Middle East conflict? I never blamed Israel's enemies? I guess I never have.

    I've urged violence against supporters of Israel? I've cursed out people who agree with Lepke?

    Can someone find posts where such words were typed by me?

    Ozzy says (snort) that I make things up? LOL

    Can he prove it? (Nope).

    He says no U.S. soldiers have died in combat in Iraq in more than a year. And the Department of Defense Web site is Liberal drivel.

    Oh, yeah, and that my most handsome and brave Marine son is a figment of my imagination. Ah, yes, the laddie would know, wouldn't he?

    This is patently hilarious.

    Maybe I won't be post for a whole month.

    Perhaps by then, I might be accused of The Inquisition.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  2. bill1415

    bill1415

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    526
    a reagan republican

    Labor Day, September 4, 2006

    Pentagon to Congress: Bush Is Wrong

    The War Is Lost

    By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

    The Pentagon’s latest quarterly “progress” report to Congress on Iraq is a grim tale of a lost war. The Pentagon told Congress what Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and propaganda organs such as Fox “News” never tell the American public, namely:

    (1) The Sunni-based insurgency remains “potent and viable” despite spiraling Sunni-Shiite violence and beefed up US forces.

    (2) Since the last report three months ago, Iraqi casualties from “sectarian clashes”--the Pentagon’s euphemism for civil war--have soared by more than 50 percent.

    (3) From May when the new Iraqi government was established until August, the average number of weekly attacks increased sharply to 800.

    (4) Since the previous report, Iraqi daily casualties have jumped by 50 per cent from 80 per day to 120 per day. Currently, Iraqis are dying at the rate of 43,800 per year from violence.

    The Iraqi government cowers behind the fortified walls of the “Green Zone.” On August 31, the Kurds in the north took down the Iraqi flag and replaced it with the Kurdish one. Most of Iraq is ruled by Shiite and Sunni militias. Conflict between them has forced 160,000 Iraqis to flee their homes.

    Who is going to tell Bush that the war is lost?

    Is Rumsfeld going to tell him?

    Is Cheney going to tell him?

    How can they tell him after all the bravado and false reports?

    This is a delusional administration. Confronted with three major polls showing that two-thirds of Americans oppose the Iraq war, Bush declared that he is staying the course, demonstrating yet again his disdain for common sense and the will of the American people.

    If Bush and his neoconservative cabal were judged by their performance they would be ridden out of town on a rail. If a court of law judged their actions, they would walk the plank.

    Everything this moronic regime promised about a “cakewalk” war and the ease of pacifying Iraq and turning it into an American puppet democracy has turned to ashes in President Bush’s mouth.

    Having lost the Iraq war, the neoconservatives are determined to initiate war with Iran.

    National security expert John Prados says, “The pattern of manipulation and misuse of intelligence that served the Bush administration in the drive to start a war with Iraq is being repeated today for its neighbor Iran.”

    It is now established beyond a reasonable doubt that the neocons intentionally cooked up false intelligence in order to justify the invasion of Iraq, an invasion that has resulted in tens of thousands of Iraqi and American casualties, both dead and maimed.

    Aggressive wars are themselves war crimes. To intentionally create a false basis for an aggressive war is an act of high treason.

    Alarmed by the neoconservative drive to start a war with Iran before the US can extricate itself from the Iraq catastrophe, the CIA firmly declared that any Iranian nuclear weapon is a decade away. This undermines the neoconservatives’ urgency to attack Iran now.

    Neoconservative fanatics tried to discredit the CIA with a recent report by the House Intelligence Committee Republican staff written by neoconservative Frederick Fleitz, a protege of neocon heavyweight John Bolton, a person active in concocting the false case for war against Iraq. Fleitz alleges that the CIA is a know-nothing agency that lacks the ability to assess Iran’s ability to make nuclear weapons.

    Neocons also dismiss the findings of the International Atomic Energy Agency, which issued a report on August 31 reaffirming that there is no tangible proof that Iran’s nuclear energy program has a military aspect.

    The neoconservatives plan to plunge America into war with Iran before they can be held accountable for the lost war in Iraq.

    This neoconservative conspiracy against the United States and Iran must be stopped. Neocons must be removed from the government that they have betrayed and held accountable for their crimes.

    Before America can preach democracy to the world, we must first rescue American democracy from the Bush regime and re-establish government accountability to the people.

    Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street ****nal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2006
  3. bill1415

    bill1415

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    526
    genius of an analysis

    Do not post this article again. Once was enough.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2006
  4. justbill_redux

    justbill_redux King Missile

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    Asswipe. That’s a lie. Bender know exactly what I was posting regarding sockpuppets and gave his approval including the flagging. And I never said you didn’t agree with that rule.



    I never claimed you did or did not have the same functionally re IP lookup as I did and quite frankly I could care less what you could or couldn’t do. You claimed I did not and in fact called me a liar, period.


    You first.
  5. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    Dickhead... You got my attention.

    1) You informed Bender of the sockpuppet idea, not of your other claims including changing peoples names. I never said I didn't agree with the sockpuppet rule.

    2) Bender also had no idea either that you had different abilities (to view IP's) than other mods. He changed a setting so now all mods have the same abilities.


    Now go fuck yourself.
  6. justbill_redux

    justbill_redux King Missile

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    3,923

    I’m shocked, shocked I tell you that Inspector Clouseau here has discovered that people post with agendas. Too bad he doesn’t have mine down. I don’t really care who reads my “bullshit” but its funny how you always seem to.

    Let me tell you again, stop telling me what posts I should or shouldn’t respond to. But let me ask you the same question, how many times have you been critical of one of your RW buddies, answer Zero. Not once. How many times have I criticized my LW buddies, more then you.
    How many times have you posted critical remarks against the current Republican administration?
    How many times have I posted critical remarks against Democratic crooks? More then you ever did.
    So go fuck yourself you lying hypocrite.


    You can only hope.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  7. justbill_redux

    justbill_redux King Missile

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    3,923
    Why don’t you ask bender why he made me moderator here.

    Bahahaha you ahole. 1st off I don’t make the rules bender does. And let me repeat myself. I ran that sockpuppet portion of that post by bender for his approval.

    In fact this is from bender on the subject

    it is totally unacceptable for a guy to have 2 handles to use in one thread, where they "back each other up" and "gang up" on others,
    or any similar such misleading acts.

    So, under the definition below,
    1) "This account allows them to pose as a completely different user, sometimes to manufacture the illusion of support in a vote or argument" is unacceptable, but
    2) " a desire to support or vote on an issue coupled with a desire to have one's "main" account stay away from the issue" is acceptable. BUT IF SO, THEY BETTER ACTUALLY STAY AWAY FROM IT!!!


    The only one making any threats is you
    Keep posting that Thruth and Thruthiness bullshit and see where it gets you.
    http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=569368&postcount=8

    And the only one who edits comments that are critical against the moderator is you.
    http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=569328&postcount=6

    And the only one who inserts comments in other peoples posts because he doesn’t agree with him politically is you.
    http://utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=570441&postcount=6


    Funny how you insisted that I couldn’t see any IP address until bender told you I could. And I never said I could ban anyone and despite your Goebbels lie I never said I could alter any name. Maybe you’d like to whine to bender some more.

    Tell me who’s the liar?

    Truth 3 – Truthiness 91
  8. justbill_redux

    justbill_redux King Missile

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    3,923
    I don’t care if you think the overall jist of DaveNJs posts are anti-Semitic. Show me one that is and until you I wont tell you what your reprehensible remarks are.


    I don’t care what you think.

    And is that suppose to give you some kind of magic pass here on the “dog shit and road kill forum”. I don’t think so.

    I have no problem with you. And don’t be afraid of me, I’m just the moderator and unlike the moderator of another forum I wont tell Bender jackshit or whine like a little cunt.
  9. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725

    I'm starting to wonder where Saddams stash went. I'm absolutely convinced they went to Syria and Iran..... But then I was kind of expecting to see some of those Hezbollah rockets with Iraq markings on them. It certainly would have made Iran look a bit less guilty than now with those being Iranian rockets. I guess when the world is partially blind it doesn't make a difference how guilty you make yourself look when your an arab.
  10. thezoos

    thezoos

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    500
    incidentally as far as T Z goes if Israel and Hezbollah want to blow themselves to kingdom come over that worthless hunk of land then more power to them, I just dont think it's something for U.S. folks to get ourselves all killed over.
  11. thezoos

    thezoos

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    500
    this is a common misconception about the neutron bomb.

    to actually detonate a neutron bomb requires a fission reaction (IE an atom bomb must be set off as the neutron bomb explodes). The neutron bomb is basically an atomic bomb with a layer of material that easily disperses (i believe they use heavy water). the blast of the atomic bomb causes irradiated particles of the heavy water vapor to disperse, killing the population well outside the blast radius of the bomb with radiation poisoning.

    TZ
  12. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    6,849
    As far as the US was concerned, pre-war Iraq was considerably neater. We didn't have soldiers dying every day over there. The Iraqi population was not busy blowing each other up. Whatever WMD Saddam may have had were in Iraq (not in Iran or Syria which they are now, most likely). If Saddam did have WMD before we invaded, it is more likely they'll fall into the hands of a terrorist because we invaded.

    So, basically what I am saying is that your argument doesn't hold water. I can't imagine any war planner without a bias or pre-conceived agenda suggesting that Iraq was the best next step after Afghanistan. It just doesn't add up.
  13. donquixote04

    donquixote04

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    2,174
    The "just stayed in Afghanistan" is a mantra you seem to use to mean "do nothing else". Most of the critiques of the Iraqi misadventure do start with "should have stayed in Afghanistan" but none of them mean that's ALL that should have been done. Most of them think we could have put the trillion dollars of resources we have been flushing down the Bagdad toilet to better use in destroying Islamic terrorism aimed at the West, rather than create a training/breeding ground for more terrorists. Most of the critiques think that instead of stretching the capabilities of the US to be able to respond to other threats around the world (e.g., Iran, N.Korea), not doing the Iraq invasion would have allowed us to use some of that trillion dollars to address the threats we face, rather than contribute to the threats we face. We presumably elected our government to further our interests, not undermine them.
  14. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    3,094
    Who to blame? Sadaam? The folks who put Iraq together? Bush? How about the BIG FUCKING IRANIANS? I guess they all deserve some blame. The whole thing is messy, I agree. But the status quo was at least as messy. We just weren't aware of how messy because we weren't there. And leaving would produce even more messy. It's a bloody fucking war. Better get used to messy. If you honestly think the only factor driving the messy is old tribal and religious differences, then I admire how dislocated your brain is. Because that's the only way your affrontery makes any sense. And if you think that, then the Freedom Fighters of Hezbollah deserve a poster in your living room as they attend to the needs of the poor downtrodden people of Lebanon.

    Of course if Bush had just stayed in Afghanistan, everything would be O.K.
    uh huh .....
  15. donquixote04

    donquixote04

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    2,174
    How ironic that you are criticizing me for taking a narrow view of things. I'm not talking about all the 1000's of little mistakes that are of course inevitable during war. I'm not talking about things that can be fixed by developing a new armored vehicle that can withstand IED's. I'm talking about the BIG FUCKING mistakes. (You know, like embarking on a pre-emptive war when the thing we're trying to pre-empt is ... uhhhh ... ooops ... nevermind). Or the BIG FUCKING mistakes like ignoring the troop counts our generals tell the administration they need to achieve the objectives.

    The result? I suspect you'd probably say it looks like progress. To many of us here on earth it looks like a FUCKING DISASTER with no end in sight.

    Who, exactly, have been held accountable for this disaster? The 3000 civilian Iraqis who died last month? Or the 3000 Americans who died since our administration decided we needed to pre-empt the possibility of an Iraqi mushroom cloud growing over a US city?
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2006
  16. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    3,094
    This is a load of horse manure, Show me some proof that there is no learning, no consequences and no holding people accountable. Just because the press says fire Rummy, doesn't mean he should be fired. There have been plenty of admissions of mistakes. It's a war you pinhead! And it's a guerilla war. We aren't very good at those. We must learn. Of course there are mistakes. Every heard of Anzio? Or Market Garden? Think they fired Montogomery? or Ike? And there were thousands of deaths in a matter of weeks over those mistakes. You are putting people down for imaginary attitudes that you have imprinted on them. It's a giant load of shit.
  17. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    2,000

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not doing it to get into a pissing battle with DQ or take sides in your argument. Just pointing out what I saw as an inconsistency.
  18. donquixote04

    donquixote04

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    2,174
    Yes. Of course you are right. It is important that our leaders stick to their principles, ignore the consequences of their actions, never hold anyone accountable for anything, and, god forbid, certainly never learn from their mistakes (since, of course, they never make any mistakes). Yeah, that's the ticket.

    I seem to remember a bumber sticker from several decades ago. "Don't bother me with the facts. My mind is made up."
  19. lepke

    lepke

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    1,149

    The monday morning quarter back in action thank god you are not a leader..
  20. lepke

    lepke

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    1,149
    I wonder how Mr. Figures will respond to this...My guess, he won't since you are right..