Another bleak Monday at Epsiodes

Discussion in 'Cheap Thrills' started by Slinky Bender, Apr 24, 2001.

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  1. un4given

    un4given

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    958
    I think there are no easy answers to problems... But I think its obvious that the location was temporary because:

    1) In an overpriced residential building where every tenant goes to sleep thinking about the resale value of their home, even a barking dog can get someone in trouble.

    2) A big lie is more obvious than a small one. A strip club with extras is less likely to be busted because its in an area that already allowed a strip club to exist in the first place, hence more tolerant. And policing a strip club would be a lot harder, without incriminating oneself. When someone tells me a private club (in a place that more looks like a medical office from the outside!), I may think of child molestation, mafia, drug business. My imagination leads me to conclude things far worse than they are, and call me to action quicker. By far it was the most blatant lack of cover i could concieve of. They would have done a lot better being a medical office, or a research lab, or a tatoo place!

    3) I agree with Rufus that open discussion may have significantly contributed to the fall of Rome. We have to share information, and recommendations -- its one thing. But posting pricing info, and other more concrete information (such as what has been posted in the non-member section of JAG) is unacceptable. Share info with judgement... one individual to another. The board should give people leads, not give them a rundown of what to do. Those that are interested (like i was), will do their research and keep trying to make connections until someone will trust them enough to share 1 - 1.

    the above is my personal opinion:). Dont flame me if u disagree.... just speak your mind in turn.

    -- un4given

    un4given@hushmail.com (YES i got this address back!)
    samdaman@hushmail.com (I still have this one too)
  2. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
    This is what I said.

    "It is impossible to know exactly why they've had problems recently. Perhaps it has nothing to do with being too publicized on the internet"

    I would have been happy to say nothing. Which is exactly the point. But since folks keep talking about it, I want to make the only reasonable response...that is to say that places that choose to be underground should be allowed to remain underground. And that might require some self-restraint on our part.

    UG ain't underground. We should show some restraint.

    -rufus
  3. Eye Won

    Eye Won

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    218
    I knew it

    I know Im a little late on this one and I knew Rufus was gonna come out and say I told you so. As far as saying that their was a huge surge in business. I would agree but it wasn't because of Utopia Guide.... I personally only took 4 from here and those 4 pretty much kept it to themselves and one was unhappy and never went back..
    Imperialone.....OUT!!!!!!!!
  4. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
    Right, except this place never needed to advertise and pre-dates the web. They, like many others, found a balance by using word of mouth only. So for them, exposure beyond word of mouth is something they don't want, and will only destabilize their business.
  5. littleguy

    littleguy Gold

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    2,004
    Let's see if I've got this straight.

    Business wants to make money.

    For that it needs customers.

    To get customers, potential customers need to know about it.

    More customers that know about it, more danger of being put out of business.

    Is this what's commonly referred to as a "conundrum" ?l
  6. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    I feel like there is an implicit pact between provider and client that to some degree both will respect their mutual wishes for confidentiality.

    If I choose to tell people about my hobby that is one thing. But it certainly shouldn't be up to the provider as to whether my hobby is announced to the general public.

    It should be symmetric. If an establishment decides to go for public exposure that is one thing. But if they don't I shouldn't be the one announcing them to the public.

    So this is only partly about wanting them to stay in business for my own selfish reasons. It also comes from a sense of fair play.
  7. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,495
    I have always fealt that, to some extent, that is simply part of the business. For example, you can note our previous conversations regarding discussions on TBD Spa about "services", and note that I personally felt refraining from such discussions was worthless.
  8. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
    Fine. I am happy to give you this one. The place had problems b ecause of the building choice. The uptick in business was coincidental. The other questions are more interesting anyway.

    Do you really feel there need be no sense of discretion in posting on UG about places that choose to not advertise in any way?

    Have you always felt this way? For example, have you never worried that loose lips on The Big Dog site would endanger underground services you enjoyed?
  9. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,495
    "But you can't know that"

    And neither can you. However, you seem willing to accept your own assumptions, but not mine, even though whatever evidence exists is to the contrary. As i stated, the writing was on the wall for this location from the start, so to assume that the reason is the one you stated is a bit like linking rainfall in pittsberg to the Dow. Yes, there is a strong correlation, but using one to prove the other is hearing hoofbeats and sceaming "watch it, there are Zebras !!! ".

    rufus, your assumptions are no better than mine, so before you go pointing to mine and saying they are unprovable, work on making yours better, first.
  10. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
    But you can't know that. The place had a surge in business over the past few months as well. I think it is clear the word is spreading too fast too far.

    Respectfully, as well meaning as I think you are, I also think you have a conflict of interest when it comes to this topic. I don't think you mentioned in your 10 commandments any notion that some places or activities really shouldn't be discussed on large boards like UG. You want your board active. This is natural.

    But do you really feel there should be no sense of discretion about places that choose to not advertise in any way?

    Have you always felt this way about, say, places like TBD?

    You've never worried that loose lips there would endanger services you enjoyed?
  11. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,495
    I think in this particular case, the shortness of how long they were in this location has more to do with a poor choice of "building" rather than discussion on public boards. Like PIT on 16th Street, they chose the wrong building to be in ( ok, so you know I'm going to say that I called both those "shots" and that's why I'm bringing it up ).

    The writing was on the wal for a "short stay" in this location from the first day they openned, with or without any discussion.
  12. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
    Lesson still not learned?

    When Episodes wasn't the subject of discussion on public boards it went for many many months without problems. Some times they went for years at a time without incident. In the last few months they've been the object of unprecedented open discussion here and elsewhere. They've been open at the new location for only a short while and now have problems.

    It is impossible to know exactly why they've had problems recently. Perhaps it has nothing to do with being too publicized on the internet.

    But given their recent problems, maybe it is finally time for everyone to realize how easily a place like this can be lost, and exercise discretion by simply not speaking of this place to large public audiences. I am sure it is what the operators would prefer.
  13. Eye Won

    Eye Won

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    218
    You are correct

    Episodes has been shut down yet again.... Not to worry, they will be open again shortly...They always bounce right back
    Imperialone......OUT!!!!!!
  14. NYCBoy

    NYCBoy

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    42
    Jag Discussion Board

    Post says Episodes is shut down.
  15. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
  16. un4given

    un4given

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    958
    Rufus hushmail deleted all my old mail... could you tell me your email address again?

    samdaman@hushmail.com

    [Edited by un4given on 07-24-2001 at 10:06 PM]
  17. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,495
    SO, who was the lucky lady ?????
  18. un4given

    un4given

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    958
    :):):):):)I wonder why im so happy tonite.....:):):):):)
  19. un4given

    un4given

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    958
    Yes hushmail lost my account info 2 months ago, so my email is samdaman@hushmail.com now. I lost all my contacts from the un4given account, including all the info saved in it:p. Anyway its good we got back in touch.
  20. blkthought2001

    blkthought2001

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    21
    I not much apart of this board but the moderator suggested I inquire here. I've been reading these posts for a while and have some information to offer. None of which I want to share on an open board. Only asking for help in getting in. I you can't help out that's ok, I'll find it out eventually I'm guessing.

    BTW, what's up Un4Given. You changed your email. Been tring to get in touch. Thanks for the info on the Brooklyn spots and I hope you tried out the contact I suggested.

    Peace