Apple, the FBI and the ACLU.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by genius, Apr 1, 2016.

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  1. genius

    genius

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    Apple's defense against Judges order ( I don't think the order was a search warrant) was to order Apple to assist gov't to unlock phone.

    A search warrant case relevant to this case (although I don't think Apple was issued a search warrant as there is nothing Apple has to search):
    From NYT in In July 2015:
    A New York state appeals court ruled on Tuesday that Facebook had no legal standing to challenge search warrants on behalf of its customers, a decision that dealt a blow to civil libertarians and social media companies seeking to expand Internet privacy.
    Upholding a lower court decision, the five-judge panel in Manhattan said that under state and federal law only a defendant can challenge a search warrant, and it must be done during a hearing before trial. At that point, defendants can move to have evidence thrown out as the fruit of an illegal search.
    But Facebook, as the online entity storing material, does not have the power to ask a judge to throw out search warrants before they have been executed, said Judge Dianne T. Renwick, who wrote the unanimous opinion. “There is no constitutional or statutory right to challenge an allegedly defective warrant before it is executed,” she wrote.
  2. n2deep

    n2deep

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    you know i was curious regarding apple in China AND asked a Asain guy i know who travels to China and is both smart with tech and law and he says
    in China THEY HAVE THE BACKDOOR ALREADY IN PLACE..
    i cant say 100 % but i trust what he says
  3. The Exiled

    The Exiled

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    Just to amend this: If I recall correctly from what I read of the accounts he wanted to retaliate but Casper Wienberger objected and talked him out of it.
  4. The Exiled

    The Exiled

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    They would and were going to appeal all the way to SCOTUS.
  5. The Exiled

    The Exiled

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    I love Reagan but he did nothing when Hezbollah bombed the Marine barracks.
  6. Mr. Wiggley

    Mr. Wiggley

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    Reagan would have just dropped a nuke on the ISIS stronghold, then told everyone he forgot what the button was for.
  7. genius

    genius

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    And the to complicate matters you have self-appointed guardians of "what is right" who from one side of they mouth say the gov't is wrong to force Apple to break into the phone and they will help Apple fight the gov't and then when the gov't breaks in w/o Apple's help say it is wrong of the gov't not to tell Apple how they broke in - what I see as Chutzpah.
  8. genius

    genius

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    The problem is that Apple claims that it cannot unlock the phone unless it develops tools that it claims it does not now have. If it had such a tool now, and when served with a proper warrant, Apple could not legally refuse to open the phone. One of the tools the gov't wants them to develop is a version of their OS with a "back door". A simple analogy is to think of this a the door card that only the hotel staff has (think room housecleaning staff) that opens every door whereas the door card you get only opens your room. LE doesn't need the code or card, its just needs someone from the staff, when served with a warrant, to use their card to open the door.

    As I understand it (and the way I would do it) is that the backdoor code would only be known to Apple, and the gov't, with proper warrants, would give the phone to Apple to open via backdoor. Apple won't do this scheme as it feels that there are a lot of smart guys out there with powerful tools and it would only be a matter of time before someone (or some gov't) got the backdoor code (or whatever method used to break in).

    What I think what is also on Apple's mind is a gov't like China, where Apple is starting to sell a lot of phones, will at some point say "you can't sell anymore phones in China until you give use the code". Furthermore, Apple says it's goal is to make an unbreakable encryption code that not even Apple can break so they cannot be forced by legal means (search warrants) or extortion (you can't sell anymore phones in our country) or perhaps some other means such as finding out the guys at Apple in the know and get it from them - think maybe a lot of $$ or perhaps I have your kid and will kill him if you don't help us. They cannot not be forced to do something that cannot be done.
  9. Batchagaloop

    Batchagaloop

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    A very simple yet pragmatic solution could have and should have been done here. FBI partners with Apple to unlock the phone. After a proper and legal court order to unlock the phone, think search warrant here, Apple unlocks the phone, and then turns it over to FBI. But does not reveal how it did so. Thus, Apple preserves its security and privacy, FBI gets the info it needs to protect against future acts of terror, if they find any evidence on the phone and everyone walks away unhappy. A perfect compromise.
  10. pokler

    pokler Power Bottom

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    When school kids from mid america are slaughterd by muslim animals maybe liberals will then see the blood on Tom Cooks hands.
  11. genius

    genius

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    As I have posted before Genius is not Jewish but has long associated professionally and personally with members of the tribe. From these associations, perhaps one of the richest benefit was an introduction to various Yiddish words and phrases – an unbelievably rich language where a word conveys much meaning that simply cannot be expressed in an equivalent word in English.

    One such word is Chutzpah.

    This brings me to my subject, Apple, the FBI and the ACLU.

    February 17, 2016
    NEW YORK — The American Civil Liberties Union said today that it would support Apple’s legal fight against a court order to help the government unlock an iPhone belonging to one of the people responsible for the San Bernardino shootings.

    April 1, 2016 WSJ
    The American Civil Liberties Union has accused the FBI of gambling with cybersecurity by failing to disclose to Apple the method used to access the San Bernardino iPhone, reports the WSJ.

    I open the floor to conversation - I just finished my morning coffee and read of the NYT and WSJ and will post my views later after I finish with some things I need to do.