Beginning of Peace???

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by Rokin, Aug 18, 2006.

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  1. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    You think they'll change. I'm betting on human nature and a few thousand year old track record that says not in our lifetime. And our millitary might doesn't scare them cause they all know we'll never unleash it. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran and everywhere else they stand up to the west is emboldening them more and more every fucking day. While peace-nicks and the hopefuls go thru the tried and failed process of negotiation with the un-negotiable while the clock ticks. Me... I no care anymore. I checked the most likely targets and I'm not in any major blast zones.
  2. Rokin

    Rokin

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    I think the silent majority, together with their leaders, are fearful of the minority terrorists/fundamentalists.
    What looks like may be happening now is that because of the powerful weapons that may become available shortly by Iran, they have to start making a decision between challenging these terrorists/fundamentalists (a dangerous proposition) or finding a way to stop a war with potentially devastating effect (for the first time a more dangerous proposition).

    Survival makes people really look at doing things they may not otherwise contemplate doing.
  3. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    Well anyway.....


    While whomever is trying to talk sense to the Iranians...... Have that whomever ask them which fucking numb nut country gave these fucking retards a missile capable sub.

    Not that the US navy couldn't blow that fucker out of the water faster than it takes me to type this. But we should certainly deal with the country who aided them.
  4. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    You seem to imply that the leaders of some of these countries would have positive dealings or relations with the Israeli's if not for the fear of their own peoples reactions. (which btw would be a fairly accurate statement)


    So my question is..... If so many of their masses share those negative opinions (re: Israel) that even their 'dictators' fear them and or can't/won't convince them to change..... How the fuck is the west supposed to do that.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2006
  5. Rokin

    Rokin

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    I am trying to apply their mentality to the situation.
    You have the people running the countries (excluding Iran), who do not want to commit suicide, versus the terrorists and possibly Iran who are willing to die for their beliefs. Before the leaders of the countries lose their power over the people they will want to try for peace.
    Their problem is that it is a very fine line to show strength against Israel and still maintain credibility with their people.

    What I was saying is that until now, their was not a realistic possibility of losing it all; ie; a nuclear war in the area.

    Now that all the chips are on the table, people have to start making decisions andmost of the arab leaders and countries do not want to commit suicide.
  6. Traderdave

    Traderdave

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    The problem is we keep trying to apply western mentality to "eastern oriental ideology". They are completely incongruous. It is ideology and jihad uber alles.
  7. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    I was making the point though that regardless of the recent events in Lebanon, peace in the middle east, or anywhere in the world for that matter is highly unlikely because of the US' upcoming showdown with Iran. I may not have extrapolated enough in my post though for that to be obvious. And even though I quoted you I was attempting to address some of Rokin's points as well.

    This is probably a good example though of why I should wait until I'm not so busy to post, but lately those times are few and far between.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2006
  8. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    But our streets isn't what we were talking about.
  9. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    We should be more worried about the streets of the US, as well as US interests abroad like our soldiers and bases. This is going to be hairy. I'm not talking about a few suicide bombers either. There is no way in hell the Iranians are going to fold as quickly and as easily as Iraq did. This would be the time we're most likely going to start seeing Saddam's WMD, courtesy of Iran/Syria come into play as well as whatever they were able to gather in addition to Saddam's arsenal.
  10. Rokin

    Rokin

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    Ozzy
    Time will tell but I have to be optomistic that at this point, the folks running the arab countries will see that it is in their best interest to have peace.
    I can't wait to see what happens in the next six months.
  11. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    But one little intifada and they cut all ties with Israel. So they just cut off their arms and legs.... and as soon as the war with the west starts between the US/Israe; and Syria and Iran (and it will start) you get bet dollars to donuts that Egypt will fall in line (or as you said.... "forced to in order to retain credibility") with the rest of the arabs calling for Israels destruction and start blowing the rest of their body parts all over Israeli streets.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  12. Rokin

    Rokin

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    I think Egypt is a good example.
    One of the things Israel was doing was helping them with technology to irrigate previously arid land. Very important to Egypt.
    Egypt may have to take a position that it feels it is forced to in order to retain credibility in the arab world but they were and will be in the future a partner with Israel.
    Egypt's does not have as its goal to destroy Israel. They understand that Israel will continue to exist and better to spend the money and energy on more worthy goals and to work with Israel who can provide them with many economic benefits.
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    IN 5,000 years nothing has changed. It's safe to assume in the remainder of our liftime (50-100 years) nothing will change either.


    And whats the big deal over losing an arm and a leg when they prefer to blow their body parts all over the street.


    But a great example of your case would be Egypt. They had some relations with Israel for about a decade. They had some oil deals (Egypt supplied Israel) in exchange for technology, med supplies and such.... and what happened. Arafat's intifada started and Egypt cut all ties with Israel again. Thats something you don't hear about in the media.
  14. Rokin

    Rokin

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    I hope that you are wrong.
    Only time will tell.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  15. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    1 and 2 will never happen.


    Lets move on.
  16. Rokin

    Rokin

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    You are right that Israel will have to do something.
    but
    Israel in return will get what they must have.
    Agreement to Israel's right to exist and also economic normalization.
    Once they all trade and do business togehter they will be so intertwined that they
    1. won't destroy Israel because it would be like cutting there own arms and legs off.
    2. they won't want to destroy Israel because once they start dealing with the Israel's on a regular and normal basis they will realize that they are all the same
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2006
  17. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    I know they went to the UN.... but peace will probably mean Israel has to do something in return. So it's blackmail..... give us some shit and we agree not to kill you until one of us decides we changed our mind.
  18. Rokin

    Rokin

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    They went to the UN.
    When it is in their best interests (the Arab governments) they hopefully will make peace and it may be the right time.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2006
  19. MrFreeze451

    MrFreeze451

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    Agreed
  20. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    Sounds like a lot of bullshit. The fact it involves the UN can't be good news for Israel...... It never is.