Being Stood Up Really Sucks

Discussion in 'General Industry Related Topics' started by fishfry, Aug 16, 2001.

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  1. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    2,000
    A bad thread can read forever........

    Only if you go to it and read it. Otherwise you shouldn't give it a second thought.
  2. Body2see

    Body2see

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    61
    Think again.....

    You all amaze me with your extra time on your hands (smile)
    I imagine you will all keep going !!!
    I tell you a bad thread can read forever. YEA to the moderator, Slinky !!!!!!!
  3. Humble Narrator

    Humble Narrator

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    245
    Re: clean up hitter

    No...

    ...unless of course you count that thread on NY baseball.

    [Edited by Humble Narrator on 08-23-2001 at 11:54 PM]
  4. carlk

    carlk

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    198
    so you dont take me wrong banker man

    I love contrarians, gloomers, sharp wit and madness
  5. carlk

    carlk

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    198
    clean up hitter

    SB

    But let me alter "your scenario" a bit. You are at a conference with a dozen extremely important clients.

    <been there done that>

    You are with the one who provides 50% of the revenue for your entire company.

    < that being me>

    Another of your clients comes up to you and says "You know, I have something I need to talk to you about. Can we have a drink later and discuss my order ?". You're a little drunk, and it doesn't sound too unreasonble, so you say "Sure, why not ?".

    <I am perhaps the most dissipate guy on the planet -- no shot this happens in my world. I am obligated to separate being shitfaced from my biz. you disagree SB???>

    Well, that number one client ties you up for the rest of the night, with some things which he also thinks is very important. He absolutley will not let you go, and you end up talking to him about his order untill the sun comes up. Now, you stood up that other customer, didn't you ?

    <I get drunk with the best of em -- and the best dont use that to excuse conduct. holy man? Nope. mistakes? yup. my point: b2s made herself a disaster zone, and needed to plead and atone -- I have to. in lieu, she disappeared.>

    HN

    dont you ever get bored with being the friggin voice of reason? nuthin I can disagree with here.

    B2S

    my bs meter needle just snapped off. first youre invisible then you come out on the attack. your move was to either publicly apologize or stay silent. sorry if *your* day was upset, but imagine how I feel. I actually felt bad when you were getting abused on TBDNY.

    all

    just my experience ... almost always, someone is *totally* right and the other is *totally* wrong. but separate form that, here there seems to be consensus between the two participants. put popularity aside and the story is crystalline ... or did I miss something?

    no axe grinding, but them are the facts
  6. wsb

    wsb

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    523
    I actually prefer "muck and mire" over "pus and bile". In any event, just trying to keep 'em honest.

    --WSB
  7. Casper

    Casper

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    8,268
    SB thanks for your reply to me. I will let it stand on it's own without rebuttal. Maybe we can honor John's request and put this thread to rest ?

    Peace Out
    C
  8. ruby

    ruby

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    Man, do I know the feeling! I'm a little too nice sometimes, 'cuz the same person did it to me 3 times in a row! The first time he had the decentcey(sp?) to call & tell me he had an emergency to deal with at the job, but promised to meet me the next day. Guess what? Yeah, no show, no phone call, nothing. So then about 2 weeks after that he calls & wants to make up for his bad manners & meet me at a very nice lingerie store & get me a gift (because the next day was my birthday too) & then we would go do our thing. Well, I waited by the store for about 30 minutes in in 96 degree, humid heat & no show, no phone call, nada. I tried to call him several times with no response. It makes me feel like the asshole & it should'nt because I just try to treat people the way I would want to be treated, but there are too many game-players. Anyway I just wanted to let you know that I know how you feel. It does suck, but all of us arn't like that. Later,Ruby
  9. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    Casper,

    Just to be clear, I wasn't ( as I said ) talking about the specifics of this situation, since I wasn't there fo all the events. My point was not to exonerate anyone for anything. And anyone who has followed my posts for any length of time will know that I constantly rail at the lack of business-like behaviour all throughout the industry. So, I'm not looking to make excuses for anyone who doesn't exhibit the proper degree of professionalism.

    That said, as always, I like to look at both sides and poke holes into everyone's "righteousness". As someone who has owned his own businesses for over 20 years, I can hardly imagine how many silly promises I have been made. In fact, just in the past few days, I was sent an offer which I knew couldn't be correct. Now, I could have assumed that the broker involved knew what he was doing, and that I had been made "promises", but that wouldn't have ended me up with what I wanted. So, what did i do ? I made certain assumptions about what the likelihood was of what eh actual term of a deal might be, and moved along knowing that at least a number of the terms I had been "promised" would evaporate. Of course, the deal is far from being "done", and already two of the terms have changed. Now, I could jump up and down, scream bloody murder, and crater the deal. But that wouldn't end me up with much, would it ????

    Does this make the broker invovled anything but an idiot and bad businessperson ? Of course not. But if I took what he had to say on face value, when i should have known better, well, then, to some extent I'd be an idiot, too.

    I see guys getting into situations every single day in this hobby, because of various permutations of the "sin" of not thinking about "reality". There is sooooooooooooooooooooo much hearing hoofbeats and thinking "Zebras!!!". And the funny thing is, everyone sees it when it's "the other guy" ( Did you see that post by Arnold Ziffel ? Who is he kidding ? What king of moron is he ? I can't believe he thinks that .......etc.,etc.,etc. ).

    Now, this is way too much of an "all encompassing" topic to flush out in this little thread/post, but I'll close with something I said to a disgruntled customer about 15 years ago, when they called me to complain about one of my salespeople: In the history of the world, I doubt that there have been too many, if any, arguments where one side was 100% right, and the other side was 100% wrong. Things just don't work that way. And when you start thinking that you are 100% right about something, that's when you have to watch out for the possibility that there may be more to the situation than you are looking at.

    I just hate to see guys getting "hurt" because they walk into some of these encounters without thinking, because getting stood up is hardly the worst thing which can happen in our little euphamisitacally named "hobby". There's plenty of folks who are out there "playing for keeps", and you'd better keep your head up, your ears open, and your wits about you. It's just plain dangerous not to read the road signs before you go around that curve. You can complain all you want about that bridge being out when you find yourself in the river, and you can point to everything "they" should have done to better warn you about that bridge. And you would be right. Dead right.
  10. HH

    HH

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    Speaking from experience - nope it's not the first time

    HH
  11. Casper

    Casper

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    8,268
    Slinky you've finally let me down by this reponse. Maybe I had too high expectations of you?
    Business is business. "She" said things to reaffirm the meeting for later on into the night and granted things may have gotten out of hand on her side and she was not able to eventually make it, BUT I will say it again,,,,,, Don't pull the guy's chain if you had no intention of meeting him,,,,
    Was this a one time event for "her"? You tell me as I don't know her or her history. All I know is John's story (verifyable by other attendees) and I also know there has been no attempted public reply by "her".

    To not acknowledge or even reply to John even in email (I assume no email was sent to John since he did not state any was sent) is adding insult to injury. And at this late date, too little too late.

    Peace Out
    C


    P.S. Read John's latest post after I submitted this. I at least want to kick Slinky (figuratively speaking of course)

    [Edited by Casper on 08-20-2001 at 10:43 PM]
  12. littleguy

    littleguy Gold

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    2,004
    Sorry Slink, but "That dog won't hunt"
  13. JohnJ

    JohnJ Repentant Sinner

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    748
    It's a dead horse, it wont run, but lets kick it anyway.....

    I was unaware of any pre-existing problems nor has anyone including yourself ever mentioned what name to use. I asked the APM if he could edit it out and I believe he has done so.

    As far as the rest, I've said what I thought happened and I don't see the need to further flog, cane, whip, shellac, nor kick this dead horse.


    John J
  14. Body2see

    Body2see

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    61
    Give me a break....

    We are all adults here. Have none of you ever drank too much and passed out when you hit the bed ? I think we have all had this experience at least once in our life. Hang over the next morning. JohnJ as far as you knocking on the door to my room, I am sorry, alcohol did take its toll on me that evening. As far as you calling the room, the phone never rang, or at least I did not hear it. This is the second thread that you have made concerning this evening. Did you get what you were looking for ? Do you feel better? Can I look forward to a 3rd thread????
    I stay off line all weekend. This is a wonderful way to start my monday. FYI, I chose the name body2see to try and stay alittle discreet. I imagine this is not possible, you seem to feel the need to keep throwing the name Brenda on the board. Again....does this make you feel as though you have some sense of control??

    I have apologised to you more than once JohnJ, I will not do it again.

    [Edited by Body2See on 08-20-2001 at 09:19 AM]
  15. justme

    justme <i>pop and click tainted</i> Vinyl ( is dead )

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    You tell the big fish you have to use the restroom, reschedule (with a tremendous aopolgy) the small fish, and get back to your all night strategy session. A simple 30 second phone call can save a relationship.
  16. Humble Narrator

    Humble Narrator

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    How about we talk about reality?

    Two observations: First, I really don't understand all the talk about "fantasy". Unless you are into role-play, how does fantasy have anything to do with the hobby? I don't engage in any fantasy while I am with providers. In fact, I am intensely in the there and then, as it were.

    That being the case, I don't agree that it's difficult to try and be realistic about the arrangements. I think that the arrangements can in fact be dispensed with quite nicely, given the elimination of subterfuge, intrigue and courtship in general that the hobby affords us. This is a business arrangement. Yes, business can be conducted in a friendly way, but the business must come first.

    For the record: I have never been stood up, nor have I ever stood up a provider. I tend to be pretty black-and-white about these things. I confirm and reconfirm and then leave emails and voicemails the day of. Note: I am referring to Indie's here.

    Second observation: SB's scenario leaves me feeling just as negatively about his protagonist as JJ's story does about B (If we assume that version is all true, just for the sake of discussion). Treating people poorly is just plain bad business. What happens when that big customer leaves? If you have burned bridges to coddle him, what are you left with when he is gone? Most business people will try and kindly tell the "little guy" that he will have to wait until a better time, perhaps lunch on Monday, to discuss his pressing issue(s). Then of course you do actually call him and have lunch Monday.

    No big deal, just good business.
  17. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,769
    "But let me ask you this: in a fantasy wordl how does one impose a rule of sobriety in expectations?"

    It's very difficult. Doesn't mean it should be ignored.

    But let me alter "your scenario" a bit. You are at a conference with a dozen extremely important clients. You are with the one who provides 50% of the revenue for your entire company. Another of your clients comes up to you and says "You know, I have something I need to talk to you about. Can we have a drink later and discuss my order ?". You're a little drunk, and it doesn't sound too unreasonble, so you say "Sure, why not ?". Well, that number one client ties you up for the rest of the night, with some things which he also thinks is very important. He absolutley will not let you go, and you end up talking to him about his order untill the sun comes up. Now, you stood up that other customer, didn't you ?

    ( NB: None of the above should be construed as a description of anything other than a hypothetical about Carlk's conference ).
  18. carlk

    carlk

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    198
    My last thought or two

    On this issue at least.

    Slink, you're another one I've known -- sort of -- for a long time. And from way back when I recognized you as a voice of reason, often echoing in the darkness.

    But let me ask you this: in a fantasy wordl how does one impose a rule of sobriety in expectations? I am very much the same as any of the Ladies here; I sell my time. (No, boys, no bbbj.) And often I socialize with my clientele. And often in a festive atmosphere. With booze. Breaking up very late. And I have other places I'd like to be. Imagine my client saying "hey, can you meet me after this dinner is over -- *on* the clock, of course?" So I say "Sure!" And then I no-show ... uhhh ... know what, just for giggles let's say it's you with something you perceive (as we all do) to be of earth-shaking importance. So we set a time and a place, you show well after midnight and I never get there. And yes, these assignations of ours are (perceived as) every bit as important as all our other stuff. And the slight must cut as deep.

    Now, for egalitarian purposes, let's rotate things 180 degrees. I'm a busy guy. So things get hectic and I no-show a woman. Well, she should have managed her expectations, right, I mean, knowing how busy I obviously am.

    Nah. Things can't work in a chaotic structure where people say whatever is the moment's expedient, then let god sort out the bodies.

    My take on the right expectations set. Any woman can tell me -- gently, please --- she doesn't want to see me. At a particular moment or forever. I often do ON's with Ladies I've never met. Some -- smarter than me, I suppose -- say no thanks, let's meet first for an hour. Guess what? They're entitled. But if she says yes, that's a debt, an obligation. I should fairly expect she will be a person and arrive, barring some supervening calamity. If she says yes knowing she means no? Well, ... asshole.

    Imagine the forest fire had she shown and JJ "assumed" from the circumstances that he had no reasonable expectation that she would, and so went home? Holy jesus fucking christ, what a bonfire.

    Leaving now to dismantle my soapbox.

    PS Only ever been stood up once, which with all my activity still leaves me batting virtually a thousand, so this is no personal crusade. But I truly would be livid if someone got a buzz or a bettter thing came up or whatever. Sheesh.
  19. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,769
    I'll throw this in, even if it doesn't pertain to the current "item". If someone makes an "impossible" promise, the preson who believes it bears some of the blame for the end result. If I promised that I would get all 2,000+ members here a date with ivana Milecevic, and I didn't come thru, would it be all that much of a sureprise ?

    Now, that is not meant ot totally absolve the person who made the unreliable promise. It's just that sometimes you have to have reasonble expectations, and when someone makes a promise that you know it is unlikely they will keep, you have to temper your expectations and not be quite so dissapointed when the event which you knew or should have known was going to occur ( i.e. the disappointment ). Some of the ingredients which you have to take into account in this soup are the "promise" itself, the events surrounding that promise, the state of mind of the "promissor" and 'promissee", and external factors which ocur to both sides at the time of the "event".

    There have been more than one situation comedy episodes revolving around the theme of unrealistic promises and people running around trying to make them work out. it's never quite so funny when you are one of the people in real life who has made one, or has had one made to you.
  20. littleguy

    littleguy Gold

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    2,004
    Skagen,

    I agree with HN. I re-read your post and it didn't seem to me to be sarcastic at all.

    Don't think you should assume everybody remembers everything said in other posts. Tough enough to remember what's said in the current one. Had you "quoted" his other post, I might have gotten it.

    No big deal. Sorry I didn't get it.