Brighton Beach Busts

Discussion in 'New York' started by nycstripclubs, Jun 8, 2001.

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  1. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

    Part of the "drug" problem is that when dealing with "addictive" drugs, employer's/the public's rights come into play. If a drug is legal, how do you fire someone for having a certain amount of it in their system ? And if it's addictive, you know that the 'addict" will always need to have some of it in their system. Employers and the public could be construed to have conflicting rights to the personal "right" to always have some of these substances in your bloodstream ( would you want to argue the allowable amount of any of these in a subway motorman's system ? or other such persons ? What would a juror think about a police officer involved in a shooting who had certain amounts of "controlled" substances in his bloodstream ? ). For that matter, what amounts are acceptible to employers of person who don't have "dangerous" jobs, but do need them to have all of their faculties at all times ?

    Yes, you can equate all of thisa to alcohol, which is a drug, but does not have the addictive properties ( to most people ) as a number of drugs. I think once you are talking about addictive drugs, you change the argument somewhat ( yeah, yeah, I know, everyone on this board is addicted to pussy, and I shudder to think of how employers would cringe if they had any idea how many "work" hours we all spent on these sites every day....).

    But, just to be clear, I am in favor of the decriminalization of a lot of drugs. I just don't think it's the panacea that some folks do, and I don't think it will be as easy to institute as a lot of folks do.
  2. fishfry



    You raise a couple of good points, one about drugs and the other about prostitution.

    If you don't want to legalize "all" drugs, which ones should be illegal? Medically, heroin by itself isn't all that bad for you. If a person has enough money to buy a pure supply and get proper nutrition, they can be addicted to h for years. Once you make it illegal then people have to steal for it, the h is cut with dangerous impurities, etc. So with heroin a strong case for legalization can be made.

    Even with cocaine, which is actually bad for you in and of itself, what would you say if a person obtains some cocaine and uses it in the privacy of their own house? Suppose they have enough money so that they don't have to steal. Suppose they have a job and a life so that they are not out on the street and they can take care of their health? Would you say that it's ok to put that person in jail for what they do with their own body in private?

    At what point do you regulate private behavior of consenting adults? For ANY reason?

    As far as prostitutes standing in doorways, nobody wants them standing in their own doorway. And I suppose if that's true, then the people in Brooklyn don't want prostitution going on in their own building either. So was the DA right to bust them? I agree that the issue is not simple. But I do hold to my original point, which is that people who support consensual adult activity should not be so quick to agree with the government's drug propaganda.
  3. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator


    While I agree with your logic, I must say that you can't lump all drugs together, so the two issues are a little different, depending on exactly which circumstances you are talking about ( in the same way that if you did legalize prostitution, would you make it legal for streetwalkers to stand in your doorway to ply their trade ? ). The issues are a little more complex than all drugs = all prostitutuion.
  4. fishfry


    There are some people here who would say, "prostitution is ok but drugs are bad."

    My point is that this is not good logic.

    You know that outside of this board, most of society thinks that prostitution causes disease, that it exploits women and children, breaks up families, and is bad and immoral.

    So when you say that you think prostitution is ok because it is an exchange of value for value between consenting adults, you are correct, yet most people -- including the Brooklyn DA -- disagree.

    When it comes to drugs it's the same thing. Lots of people light up a joint after work, but the police want to bust down their door and arrest them. Plenty of people have been brainwashed by the government to think that drugs lead directly to ruin -- never mind than in fact alcohol and tobacco cause over 400,000 deaths in America every year (National Institute of Health statistics).

    So when you say "prostitution good, drugs bad" you are saying that YOUR vice is ok, but MY vice isn't. It's bad logic. Why do you believe some government propaganda and not others?

    What if instead, you said that whatever consenting adults do in privacy is ok. Then you'd be saying that both prostitution and drugs are ok as long as it's in private and the people involve give their consent.

    Of course you still have laws against harming others. If I drive a car under the influence of drugs and I hurt someone, I should be punished. And if I rape someone or force someone against their will to be a prostitute, then that's a crime and should be punished.

    You either support freedom or else you don't. You cannot say that prostitution is ok because you do it, but drugs are evil because the government says so.

    The majority of Federal prisoners are in jail due to NONVIOLENT drug offenses. If you believe that you have the right to visit prostitutes, then you must believe that consenting adults have the right to do what they want with their own bodies. Therefore you must also believe that the same consenting adults have the right to smoke, shoot, swallow and snort any damn substance that makes them feel good.
  5. jras


    chill fry

    legalize it ...

    but Scottie was makin' a good point, mon.

  6. Tankcommander


    I can understand if the busts were made...

    under the intention of saving individuals "FORCED" into becoming prostitutes, but we all know it's part of Guiliani's "forcing" the rest of the city to abide by his version of morality. Obviously, sex is a crime to him, but corruption and political extortion is not.

    Banning alcohol at parades due to what happened at last year's Puerto Rican Day Parade is understandable from his position. I don't agree with it, but understandable.

    I'm actually an anarchist. I believe that one should be allowed to make all of his or her own decisions and ultimately, responsible for their own destinies. However, the powers that be relegate me to a very small minority.
  7. fishfry


    "here are a lot more people killed on the roads due to people driving under the influence of drugs"

    So you are for banning alcohol I assume?
  8. ScottieDS


    Regarding the statement that "there isn't a dimes worth of difference between drugs and prostitution", I don't necessarily agree.

    I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would guess that:

    1. There are a lot more violent crimes ultimately caused by drug addicts looking to score, verses johns looking to score.

    2. There are a lot more people killed on the roads due to people driving under the influence of drugs verses getting head while driving.

    Hey, I'm all for the freedom to allow people to do what they want with their own bodies, but I do believe there is more that a dimes difference between drugs and prostitution. Probably more like a quarter.

  9. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

    Rudy: "Let them eat cake".
  10. fishfry


    I agree that there isn't a dimes worth of difference between drugs and prostitution. Both are choices individuals make regarding the use of their own bodies. If a consenting adult smokes a joint or shoots heroin in their living room, or if two consenting adults get together to exchange money for sex, who gives a fuck? Americans have been totally bamboozled by the government on many such issues of personal freedom.

    In any event I had the pleasure one night of checking out one of those Russian gals. She was very nice. I paid her money, we spent a pleasant sexy hour together, and both of us were better for the experience.

    How does the government expect these women to make a living?
  11. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

    Anything could be true, and I have no knoweldge to the contrary. However, it's just the type of thing you would hear from Hynes which would be a "fib". For example, in this same article you see:

    "There isn't a dime's worth of difference, in my point of view, of selling drugs or selling a woman's body. So the lawyers are going to be notified at the arraignment to forget about any negotiations, we are going to go to trial, where they can plead to the indictment."

    Well, drug charges get plead out all the time, so what's with this statement ????? It's also nice to hear this grandstanding that he doesn't give a rat's ass about spending lots of taxpayer $$$ on full trials when the charges could be plead out. There's only one reason for that....headlines.

    I'll tell you another thing, if the situation is what's being claimed, I'll put the odds of getting anyone to testify to the most serious charges at 100 to 1.
  12. adude


    videotaped sessions

    Anyone think this is true or is it something the DA is saying to discourge the trade ?
  13. nycstripclubs


    19 Arrested In Brooklyn Prostitution Probe

    (Brooklyn-WABC, June 7, 2001) _ Ads promising a way to make it in America led young women into prostitution, and now to jail. A Russian prostitution ring is shattered after a long and detailed investigation. The ring was made up of women desperate to stay in this country and desperate for money. Art McFarland reports from the Brighton Beach section of Brooklyn with the details.

    One section of Brighton Beach is often referred to 'Little Odessa' because there are so many Russian immigrants living there. According to the Brooklyn district attorney, for at least a few of those immigrants the American dream means running a prostitution ring. With the arrests and seizures announced Thursday, the DA hopes to send a message to others who might be involved in prostitution in Brooklyn.
    Brooklyn DA Charles Hynes had a lot to show the media Thursday after the nine month probe in the prostitution ring. The probe resulted in the arrest of 19 people, their photos on display, most of them from the former Soviet Union and in the US for just a short time.

    Charles Hynes, Brooklyn District Attorney: "It is a growing problem in Brooklyn. Particularly in the Russian community."

    The arrests were made at 10 locations in Brooklyn and one on Staten Island. At one Brighton Beach apartment building, some residents were not surprised that there were arrests for prostitution.

    The women were recruited through ads in Russian-language newspapers. Two undercover police officers were sent in to the point of responding to the ads."

    Undercover Police Officers: "We would go to the spot, where they would meet us at the spot and they would explain to us that we can make 'x' amount of dollars for just having sex."

    Investigators also seized $25,000 in cash, computers and written records, as well as adult video tapes and other items said to be tools of the sex trade. While the DA has charged the alleged prostitutes with misdemeanors, those charged with promoting the business face felony charges and no plea bargains.

    Hynes: "There isn't a dime's worth of difference, in my point of view, of selling drugs or selling a woman's body. So the lawyers are going to be notified at the arraignment to forget about any negotiations, we are going to go to trial, where they can plead to the indictment."

    The DA says the records seized should lead them to some of the alleged prostitution ring. He also wants some of those customers to know that at at least one location they were videotaped by the suspects doing sex acts, without their knowledge.
  14. nycstripclubs


    NY POST 6/07/01



    June 7, 2001 -- Brooklyn cops yesterday busted a Russian prostitution ring that authorities said forced newly arrived immigrant women to become hookers.
    The prostitutes turned tricks in empty apartments above stores and on residential blocks throughout Bath Beach and surrounding areas, law-enforcement sources said. Cops raided alleged sex spots on Bath and Ocean avenues, Avenue U and West 8th and Bay 26th streets.

    In some cases, the women were believed to have been forced into prostitution to pay off debts to smugglers who helped get them into the U.S.

    Two female officers, one of them Russian-born, spent nine months responding to classified ads in Russian-language newspapers in the Brighton Beach and Bath Beach areas. They also applied for jobs with "escort services" that really recruited hookers.

    Cops raided 15 locations, but did not reveal the number of arrests they made. In one case, an apartment was "chopped up into little cubicles" to increase the amount of business that could be done.