Civil war in Iraq

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by justbill_redux, Feb 22, 2006.

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  1. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    3,094
    Yeah Lamont. You can talk to me. But it might be better if you got off that terminal you type on that only allows one line at a time..... I'm not sure you have a whole paragraph in you....
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  2. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    Ozzy, you said you were done with me. Let's keep it that way.

    There are 7 million people in this fine city of ours.

    I am certain I can find someone to converse the day's issues with minus the insults, the taunts and the cursing.
  3. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    Show me where in history, and how Tito was a tyrant instead of your usual conjuncture.. which goes like this....

    Because the Yugos split the way they did when he died... that made him a tyrant?


    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  4. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    Well, I knew quite a few people who think differently.

    He is viewed as a hero because he stood up the Nazis during World War II.

    But he was a strongman, indeed afterwards.

    If he had not been, the transition to the post-Tito era would have been smooth and Yugoslavia would have never split apart.

    Tito's iron hand and will keep a lid on the poisonous ethnic tensions in the Balkans region.

    He was not able to accomplish that by being a boy scout.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  5. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    I think Tito and history would take umbrage with you calling him a tyrant.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  6. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    Actually, it does take a tyrannical dicator to hold together a country made up of usually warring ethnic tribes.

    All one needs to do is look at Josef Stalin's Soviet Union, Josip Broz Tito's Yugoslavia and now Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

    After Stalin died, the Soviets were able to hold on their empire only through brute force and fear. The minute they eased up as they began democratic reforms, their empire fell apart.

    When Tito died, Yugoslavia split apart faster than an inbound comet.

    Why is anyone surprised that Iraq has gone south?

    The Kurds have longed wanted their own homeland.

    Thanks to George W. Bush, they got it.

    Colin Powell was right. But then, anyone who knows anything about the history of Iraq and how it was thrown together could figure this out.

    If the U.S. stays, the only thing the people of this country will receive is a steady stream of body bags.
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    It doesn't take a tyranical dictator to keep a country in order thats made of different hard to get along sects...... You won't find better or more recent evidence of this than Yugoslavia and Tito. I think Tito dies in the early 90's and look what happened there within a few years.



    Now I'm sure justbullshit will go and search the net and tell me I'm wrong and that Tito died in 1989 or something, but he wasn't at all a tyrant and he held that country together for 30 something years.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  8. celtic knight

    celtic knight

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    What a fine mess. Colin Powell told the neo-cons that the pottery barn rule applied before we invaded. "You break it, you own it." I believe he should have resigned when Bush wouldn't listen. That may have been enough to save us from this silly war. But Powell decided to be a good soldier and go along.
  9. Rokin

    Rokin

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    Iraq is made up of three groups that will Never live in harmony together no matter how much we spend or want them to.
    Carve it up into three parts and you will see calm and peace.
    If we don't do it they will.
  10. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    I have to agree with Just Bill on this thread. The old arguement against deposing Sadaam was that only a dictator could keep the Sunnis and Shiites from killing each other. Of course he did kill a lot of them himself, so it was hardly an optimal solution. We are on the cusp. If we can't prevent an all out civil war, it will have been a real mistake to invade Iraq. And I am not changing my position on Iraq. I have always said that the jury would be out on the decision's (to invade) ultimate value until the country was stable.
  11. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    Part of me is inclined to agree that we should just bail and let them sort out their own mess (even though our involvement seriously screwed things up over there). However, at the same time I am haunted by the foreknowledge that chaotic environments like Iraq is becoming are exactly where terrorists like AQ thrive. It is because we abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated that led to AQ getting it's foothold there. AQ had a huge influence in Somalia as well because of the rampant lawlessness there in the 90's.

    Is it better to tough it out now and avoid the future mess, or bail now and deal with it later? That's the million dollar question.

    I guess Bush and his cronies didn't count on this mess when they decided to "take the fight to the terrorists".
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2006
  12. seeker6591

    seeker6591 banned

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    how about us extracating ourselves from this mess..let them fight themselves...and the problem corrects itself?? after all war produces casualties, let it be their own, rather than continuing to put our troops in harms way.
  13. bushleaguer

    bushleaguer The CDC

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    Agreed. Especially when you see present-day footage of the hurricane ravaged gulf coast. The area is still a total mess and people are living in tent cities and such without an idea as to where to go from there. Of course they show the small mardi gras parade on t.v. and you'd think all is right again with that area. Meanwhile many locales bear a striking resemblence to a piss poor third world country. How about focusing on own own pressing problems and put the Iraqi Shrine on the f'ing backburner.
  14. Rokin

    Rokin

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    Just read that the US will contribute to rebuild the dome. How much money are we going to keep spending. This is nuts. If one group of muslims are going to blow each others property up, why are American taxpayers, who are borrowing big bucks froom China, footing the bill.
    The answer.
    Because everything bad in the world is the west's/US' fault.
  15. justbill_redux

    justbill_redux King Missile

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    Well it's finally arrived. The most holiest mosque in Shia Islam was bombed.

    From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4740010.stm

    Tens of thousands of people have staged protests across Iraq after a bomb attack heavily damaged one of the holiest sites in Shia Islam.

    Dozens of Sunni mosques are reported to have been targeted in revenge attacks after a gang blew up the golden dome of the al-Askari shrine in Samarra.

    raq's top Shia cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has appealed for calm and called for a week of mourning.

    It comes a day after 22 people died in a bombing in Shia district of Baghdad.

    No-one has claimed responsibility for the attack on the shrine, although Iraqi television said several people had been arrested in connection with the bombing.

    The BBC's Jon Brain in Baghdad says the attack was almost certainly designed to raise the existing tensions between the majority Shia and minority Sunni populations.

    [snip]