controversy on boards-don't know what to believe

Discussion in 'New York' started by dicer5, Feb 2, 2001.

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  1. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    Originally posted by Rufus Moses:

    Actually I think its more like the covergence of the need for sex and the need for money.


    i agree that Darwin's natural selection and Adam Smith's free trade in combination explain more of life than any other two models.

    but, no economist (except those that are still old-fashioned marxists) believes that economics can explain all social interactions.

    and, although some evolutionary biologists are celebrating the end of their long twilight under the shadow of sociology by making claims of explanatory universality that are clearly excessive, many more sober biologists point out that genetic variation (the essence of sex's scientific function) can only explain so much.

    TS Eliot once quipped that life is "birth, death, and reproduction" (thus, reducing everything down to sex -- without even including the money). and yet, of course, TS Eliot's life and work prove otherwise.

    Which is not to say the transaction can't be fun, good natured, well meaning, a positive nurturing experience for both, blah blah woof woof...

    whoa -- "nuturing"? 'nuturance' is something that neither genetic biology nor optimization economics can explain -- or even describe.

    But it really is sex and money.

    we all agree on that. and, those of us who have been around long enough to have the morning dew cleared from our eyes are aware that the same thing could be said about marriage.

    but. the question remains: is that all there is for all couples at all times?

    if it were, then at the most basic level, the mileage would never 'vary' for a given sum of money. but, on the contrary, it always seems to vary. and neither biology nor economics, nor their combination, can begin to explain why that is.
  2. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
    Actually I think its more like the covergence of the need for sex and the need for money.

    Which is not to say the transaction can't be fun, good natured, well meaning, a positive nurturing experience for both, blah blah woof woof...

    But it really is sex and money.
  3. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    predictably, there are 'competing narratives.' ;)

    here's one: http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=83

    here's another:
    http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1377#post1377

    but, regardless of how you go about earning your captain's bars, i hope you will continue to share your thoughts and reflections here on UG.

    i think TBD is a great place for finding a large number and wide variety of escorts who have interesting insights and a pleasing outlook on life and love. but, because of its great success, TBD is just too large and unwieldy for the posters there to engage in the kind of serious and sustained colloquy that takes place here at UG.

    in no small sense, UG is like one of the schools of ancient Athens, in that so many clients here are seeking escorts that speak Greek. further, there is gymnasium for the athletically inclined, and learned symposia conducted by intellectual powerhouses, like wsb and justme.

    i realize that some prefer that the Consumer Reports model apply to asp-boards. personally, i would prefer there to be at least one asp-board in cyberspace that is more akin to The New York Review of Books http://www.nybooks.com/nyrev .

    in part this is because i believe that what is on review here is more akin to a convergence between performance art and romance novels than it is to a pas de deux between refrigerators and microwave ovens.

    but, more importantly, this thing of ours has powerful enemies -- on both the religious right and the political left. any asp-board's best defense work against their assaults are postings that a civil libertarian would be inclined to view as having "redeeming artistic or social value."

    hence, i think it prudent, rather than indulgent, to continue our dialogue here on UG.




    [Edited by guy catelli on 02-05-2001 at 08:35 PM]
  4. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,488
    jmc,

    I know I've jokingly made allsuions to what it takes to be Silver. It's really simple: 100 posts and you're at Silver. You're only 1/3 of the way there.
  5. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

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    485
    Thanks, I guess I will stay with it.
  6. One Eyed Trouser Trout

    One Eyed Trouser Trout #1 Cowboys Fan

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    2,071

    Just keep writing JM...it's not quality, but quantity of posts.

    There are some, myself included, that have DKD (dreaded keyboard diarrhea), and post alot.
  7. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

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    485
    Guy, sorry for getting back so late. I just returned from Carmel, and I could not check my email until today. I wholeheartedly agree with your last post. I do think we have a good deal to converse about, but perhaps not on the board itself. But I am wondering, how did you get to silver so quickly? SB, what am I doing wrong? Should I return to TBD full time, because my prose doesn't suit your requirements?
  8. guy catelli

    guy catelli

    Messages:
    478
    JMC,

    i don't know if this is responsive to the issue you have raised. but, even if it is not, let me take this opportunity to say that my narrative of my own experience is, for me, dispositive.

    wall street bankers, lawyers, accountants, et al, can rant on until Shiloh cometh. it doesn't matter. they don't have a clue about what i'm experiencing. the way they handle themselves on these boards with escorts makes it eminently clear that they don't have a clue about escorts, period .

    as much as i hate to concede this to the marxists, if there is one thing i have learned on these boards, it is that members of the bourgeoisie are as incapable of comprehending what those outside the bourgeoisie are experiencing as fish are incapable of imagining being a bird in the sky.

    they seize on any statement made by any escort, no matter how anomalous the context, that confirms their bourgeois mindset, and ascribe it universally to every escort with every client at every moment.

    however, as i tried to explain many times to my utilitarian colleagues at http://www.audioreview.com, the point is not to convert the 'goners'.

    rather, the point {in our context here} is to indicate to the undecideds {who are typically silent} that there is a much richer existential alternative to the bourgeois mindset that all escorts are only "doing it for the money" with respect to all clients at all times {coincidentally, just like the bourgeois themselves}.

    {justme will now proceed to chime in that that's not what anybody's really saying ;)}

    regards,

    guy

    [Edited by guy catelli on 02-05-2001 at 06:30 PM]
  9. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

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    485
    Guy: I'm not certain that the enlightenment project leaves us much. As postmodernists assert, the attempt to project universal truths on our experience, condemns us to construct meta-narratives that have no real relation to experience. It harks back to the debate between Kant and Hegel over the nature of reality. I tend to privilege postmodern discourse, positing a decisive necessity to include the "other" and refrain from marginalization. What I need to know, however, is how this relates to "johns" and "hookers". I am sincerely interested in some kind of answer. If you would prefer direct email, you have my address. Maybe we can meet for a drink and philosophical discourse.
  10. Phantom

    Phantom

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    2,806
    Not only can you not believe what you read on different boards, but you also can not trust and believe what so called friends tell you.

    [Edited by Phantom on 02-02-2001 at 02:54 PM]
  11. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    {438 words; avg reading time: <1.5 min.}

    i wish there were some definitive, clear cut answer to the question "what is truth?" -- and "how can we be sure?" as we all know, there is not -- in this or any other realm.

    and, as already mentioned, when you mix sex, money, power, and egos, and provide virtually unlimited spray-paint to anonymous graffiti artists, you get, well, the TBD boards ;)

    but, one thing *is* certain: if the last 3 centuries of the so-called 'Enlightenment' mean anything, it is that there is much more accurate and reliable 'truth' to be found in the sun room and on the rooftop than in the closet or the basement.

    i was very involved with the same issue {ie, which claims are believable and which aren't} on a 'vanilla' review board {http://www.audioreview.com} under the screen name "tone deaf" ;)

    ironically, there i was on the side of the 'utilitarians', not the 'subjectivists'. but there the subject matter of the controversy (do expensive audio cables, speaker wires, etc, make an *audible* difference if the listener is 'blindfolded'?) could either be scientifically demonstrated or it couldn't -- unlike claims subject to the ymmv qualification.

    so, i've been on both sides of this. and, i've even made charges of conflict of interest, in one particularly flagrant case (which i was able to back up with the accused's own paper trail, btw).

    believe or not, i even started a secret, invitation-only email list on the subject. {chuckling} but, the purpose of the list was not to swap information that could not withstand public review and comment. rather, it was to subdue the more incendiary (but very sincere) youthful utilitarians, lest the entire subject of double-blind testing and ABX comparisons be banned on that board (as it already had on a board controlled by a notorious 'cyberaudiopimp' ;)

    when i was on that side of the table, and virtually a clueless newbie about the subject matter {how to get one's money's worth in high-end audio}, i had no trouble quickly figuring out whom to believe and whom not to. but, so did many others who reached opposite conclusions!

    so, it really comes down to: how sensitive and accurate is your 'BS-detector'? but, alas, there is no easy way to answer this.

    as to the specific contradictory testimony to which you refer, i don't know what the UG policy would be about examining it here. but, fwiw, you are welcome to email me, if you would like, and i will be happy to share whatever insight i've gained in 3 decades at this in how to separate the 'shit' from the 'shineola'.

    i hope this helps,

    guy



    [Edited by guy catelli on 02-02-2001 at 12:22 PM]
  12. Snakeman

    Snakeman

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    4
    Not Always truthful

    There are many posts on "TBD" that are not always accurate. Carl M is one person who sometimes posts for reasons that will benefit only himself. I followed one of his recommendations quite some time ago (Brandy) who was terrible. A coke head. I emailed Carl and his response was, "I was forced to give her a good review." Since then I have seen several providers from the "TBD." I have been told by more than one that Carl is always trying to get a "freebie' or discount by promising a good review. He will try to make a deal based upon how many times he mentions the person. That is why he is always adding to everyones post. Sure many of his posts are accurate. That is expected with the quality of the girls he reviews. Still, be a little leary of his posts. maybe Carl will tell you why he and Alyssa had a falling out.
  13. LIDAWN

    LIDAWN

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    304
    dicer5 it is ok! you can change your mind anytime really! grin

    i am sure you are questioning about me..
    Please feel free to email guy catelli and carl m. or tbd himself about me..Shauna,ezrlove ,badboy194,( tbd) phirsttime caller (tbd) wincer..(TBD) ..
    or any of my posters for details..
    i am not a penthouse pet or model
    i am a girl next door type. but not the fat one on the corner ok wink but i do understand you want quality time with a quality girl so
    i am great company and fun in and out of the coffee..but i leave the decision up to u no hard feelings either way ok?!
    . if you do not want to see me.. it is ok.. it is as i always say '' a matter of choice.." so if i can help you out in any other way let me know! giddiup!
    i can recommmend some other girls who may be more your type if you like and tell me what you want ok? i do not know them all but i have heard great thingss about them
    sincerely as always
    hugzzzz DAWN
  14. Carl M

    Carl M Hanging by a thread

    Messages:
    86
    Talked about this yesterday with brother Ozwald. Its the few that spoil it for the many. Slinky is right take it with a grain of salt. Here you will find the truth my brother Dicer!
  15. Rufus Moses

    Rufus Moses

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    549
    Like Slinky said, but its even worse...

    Because, after all, prostitution is illegal (almost everywhere) in the US...so there is no regulation, legal recourse for victims of fraud, etc...whenever an industry is pushed underground all manner of corruption follows.

    Frankly, from where I sit, the commercial sex marketplace has a real carnival atmosphere...i.e. its full of carny's hawking wares and shills trying to make you think they are your bro by steering you to someone who will in turn kick back various considerations.

    Different boards/e-mail lists offer varying grades of quality information.

    The best ones are totally underground, and you have to be invited to join, and you won't see them mentioned by name on public boards.

    Next are the ones you can find and join, but are not public. Some are terrible and just want to get your AdultCheck fee or something similar. A pay site that is trustworthy for the most part is JAG. Start at http://209.236.222.188/ and work your way to the membership page. JAG tries (but doesn't entirely succeed) in keeping out those from the supply side, and this has proven to yield better info for a number of reasons. (Many find this morally objectionable, but lets PLEASE not get into that here).

    Finally are the most public places where there is no membership requirement, or membership is instantaneous and free. So far UtopiaGuide is perhaps the best of these.

    The Big Dog is by far one of the worst. Its full of shills and there are good reasons to not trust the site operator's top 10 and top 100 lists. "Consumer Reports" the TBD ain't!

    Buyer Beware!
  16. dicer5

    dicer5

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    61
    here, i kind of trust the info bec. of the lack of moderation. where, when i read something neg. on tbd, i actually think that it might be truthful info bec. i know neg. info is taken off the board sooner or later. am i wrong?
  17. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

    Messages:
    19,488
    You should take any info from any public board with a grain of salt ( including this one ). There are so many factors which affect what and how folks post. There will always be controversies on these and any boards, as long as you have subjects where people are either passionate about or there is money involved ( and here you've got both of those ).
  18. dicer5

    dicer5

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    61
    question for everyone,

    i've just read(and have previously) couple of contradictory info regarding women on tbd. this is not the first time. now, my question is how reliable do you think the info is and how do you dissect such posts to see what parts are truth and what parts are just exaggerations.