Discussion in 'New York' started by Carl M, Feb 5, 2001.
or, if ymmv, let me be the one that pays less
Or in the case of Utopia Guide readers:
If love cannot equal be, let me be the one that pays.
"if love cannot equal be, let me be the one that loves more." (wh auden)
Dicer, you have perfectly problematized the ultimate conundrum, regarding "providers" and "johns" who form relationships of a kind, outside the normal parameters of the hobby. The macho in me hopes that the only provider for whom I have ever fallen was equally, or somewhat, interested in me as well. That may or may not be true. Yet, as "johns" or "hobbyists" we ultimately face the reality that we buy a service, which excludes real affection. I did not willingly become infatuated with my favorite "provider." It just happened, in this case. I wish that it had not occurred. It has needlessly complicated my life and perhaps separated me from someone (the provider) who could be a potential friend. (To those of you who believe that friendship between "johns" and "providers" is impossible, I urge you to consider both experiences in Vietnam and in Manhattan during the leisure spa era). I appreciate your insight and wish I could respond with some certaintly about the extent to which my "provider" cares (or cared) about me. Sadly, I cannot. That in itself may explain Carl's original post.
Guy, I have loved many times, but only one of those women happened to be a "provider." Accordingly, responses as unfeeling as your last one only alienate and patronize, they do not enlighten. I never represented my personal situation in this case as an act of desperation. In fact, it was the complete antithesis. I never expected to be smitten, resisted that complication because I understood it would jeopardize a relationship with someone whom I cared for a great deal, and am now trying to rebuild a friendship that was compromised by my own stupidity.
Carl M's missive compelled me to share my own experience. That is the reason for my post. I am not certain that loving and losing beats never loving in every scenario. Granted, I got too close and am now reaping the harvest. Yet, the fault is mine, not the provider's. Responding to sincere reflections with literary quotations is one-upsmanship of the worst kind. If you care to insult me, do it directly.
is it not better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?
And a taste of honey is worse then none at all.
With all due respect,both the implicit nature of a message board like this as well as a post such as Mr Curry's invite response,opinion and judgement. To the extent we get to know some of our colleagues and care to a certain degree about them,we respond. Not to gratuitously criticize,but perhaps to help enlighten.
Mr Curry(or any other poster to whom my post might have applied) is perfectly capable of assessing any post responding to his and treating it as he deems appropriate.
I also must reject your admonitiion(or request)to refrain from commenting on johns,who seek "romance" from commercial sex relationships.
Again to extent,we seek some form of enlightenment from this to ignore,what some might regard as patently unhealthy behavior is to do these johns a disservice.As ostensibly intelligent people,all are free to reject whatever is posted here.
If a poster noted that he avoids the pain of his life by shooting heroin daily,should we ignore that as a valid recourse to self healing?
no doubt about it ...
escorts writing about their own 'forbidden love' (ie, for clients) has consumed oceans of bandwidth. here's one recent example: http://www.bigdoggie.net/discussion/posts/34832.html
note well: the authoress says she has already read about this 'millions' of times; and, ironically, that she had argued the 'other side', until it happened to her!. suddenly, she realizes what the 'other side' have been experiencing all along.
i have a more tantalizing bit of evidence (because it was impliedly written for an escort-only audience) stored on my hard drive at home. i'll try to find it when i get back there tonight.
The true greats and obviously most succesful,not only make their cleints feel good physically,but feel good about themselves as well.
also, i understand the fact that when a person sees a woman a few times, he may start developing feelings for the lady. but i always thought that usually the lady is someone who many people may feel the same way about(how great she is and all that stuff guys write about), so i always thought that the best way to look at it is that its not you that's special but she's special and she is very good at making the men she sees feel good about themselves.
I am not saying this to offend anyone; but for everyone who's fallen for a woman, do you guys think that any one of them felt the same way about you.(this is a serious question and not a rhetorical one). I just ask because most of the posts are talking about the guy falling for a provider without mentioned if the woman felt the same way. And if you think she feels that same way, how do you know its real or her just being really good at being a provider. It just seems like trouble if you start this thing thinking that you might be able to develop a relationship with a provider
Originally posted by pswope:
....if any of you gents pursue intimate relationships,solely through initiation as a commercial one, than you should strongly consider following J. Crater's sage advice and get practical therapy.
Before,you can beat the odds of starting as a John,you have to be able to address the issue as to why that's the only way you seek intimacy with women.*...
"any" of us are not asking for advice. only Carl M is. "you should strongly consider..." that you have no qualifications for performing diagnosis-at-a-distance of people quite unlike yourself with whom you are barely acquainted.
(n.b.-I'm not being judgemental...
by itself, such striking lack of insight into your own motivation calls into serious question your insight into others.
but talking from the experience of having had an affair with a working girl. After the obvious rush of having an extraordinary beautiful and sexy woman,who charged others, cater to me for free,I realized that this relationship was just an excuse to avoid true intimacy,which implies giving of yourself for more than 2 hours at a time)
i, for one, welcome your sharing this about yourself. really, i do.
(again, as i urged my audio-utilitarian colleagues with respect to people who claimed greater listening enjoyment from listening through $500+ speaker wires than physics-indistinguishable ones from radio shack: ) i think all of these boards would be much better off, and that there would be a much higher quality of sharing, if people who haven't (or, wish they hadn't already ) gotten something more out of this thing of ours than sex4$ would stop publicly characterizing those of us who have and are considering continuing to do so as either 'naive' or in need of being 'cured' by someone of something we're not complaining about in the first place.
i'm not going to deny i'm being 'judgmental' about the 'judges'. of course, i am. but, i'm trying to avoid being 'offensive' about being judgmental. i sincerely hope that i have succeeded in being candid, without being offensive.
[Edited by guy catelli on 02-06-2001 at 08:55 AM]
is it not better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?
While I don't reject the long shot possibility of a succesful relationship commenced as working girl and john ,if any of you gents pursue intimate relationships,solely through initiation as a commercial one,than you should strongly consider following J. Crater's sage advice and get practical therapy.
Before,you can beat the odds of starting as a John,you have to be able to address the issue as to why that's the only way you seek intimacy with women.*
(n.b.-I'm not being judgemental but talking from the experience of having had an affair with a working girl. After the obvious rush of having an extraordinary beautiful and sexy woman,who charged others, cater to me for free,I realized that this relationship was just an excuse to avoid true intimacy,which implies giving of yourself for more than 2 hours at a time)
*...."Some men will drive to the edges of no where
so they can take a peek into the great abyss
some men avoid love like it is a plague or somethin
so they can leave the seat down when they piss..."
[Edited by pswope on 02-06-2001 at 08:52 AM]
[Edited by badz on 05-23-2001 at 09:53 PM]
been there, done that
carl, ask yourself this question: do you love her because you need her? or do you need her because you love he?/ obviously one is closer to true love than the other.
CarlM saw Lauren of Miami -
That's my guess, having been there myself.
If you need a shoulder, bro, it's firstname.lastname@example.org
do not go falling in love then who will i have lunch with... pout.....
ther should be enough of you to go around..
What is up sugar can i help in some way talk to me u got quiet today...
Waiting to hear from you..
Like Ozzy said, Pam is a very honest, tell it like it is girl. She is also very sweet. I've seen Pam a couple of more times then Ozzy. Pam knows of my past with certain escorts. Just wanted to get her opinion on things. Who better to ask then an escort about what it takes to cross the line?
I only asked her to pick her mind. To try and get an insight as to what it takes. it was not her that I was hoping to cross the line with, but with someone else.
She had given me a couple of examples were the guy succeded in crossing the line and in each case the guy was extremely wealthly. After hearing what she had to say I asked if she felt that basically the guy had to have a ton of money and she answered yes.
Separate names with a comma.