Grammar and Usage

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by genius, Jan 22, 2018.

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  1. Zoey

    Zoey

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    I had to self-teach myself math and find private (affordable) math tutors. When I was a kid (years ago), the NYS public school teachers didn't teach normal multiplication either, they taught how to multiply using these advanced BOXES/diagonal lines (which took a lot of time and was messy if you're not careful) and that's basic math. But if you went to a good high school, the math is fine.
    Standardized exams help prevent biased teachers purposely lowering/raising students' grades based on opinion, since the grades are based on how much the kid's studied. They make sure the teachers aren't slacking. However, there are many factors involved too; such as whether the kids themselves are willing to learn.
  2. vad1

    vad1

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    Hilarious!!

    V
  3. iwantagoodhj247

    iwantagoodhj247

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    Oh shit man! That's funny! In the context I was reading it, I thought it was like the Iowa test scores or something like that! Like, Iowa's, more than cc is at hand here... duhhhh! Me, not you h50! Duh to me! Fucking funny!
    vad1 likes this.
  4. h50

    h50

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    497
    IOW = In Other Words

    And yes some strategies were attempted to be simplified to the point that the sum is that they are harder.
  5. iwantagoodhj247

    iwantagoodhj247

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    That's why I just sat back and watched. I was taught very differently than he was and I didn't want my input to mess up what he had been taught. I have zero knowledge on the workings of CC, but from my learning of math, this just seemed much harder.
    Not sure what IOWs are. Been out of the school game a long long time, not even sure it has to do with school, but you seem much more knowledgeable on the subject, so I'll defer to you and take your word for it!
  6. h50

    h50

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    Yes, no and maybe. The problem here isn't CC itself it's the particular implementation of it. Unfortunately in cases such as you describe instead of saying yeah everybody thinks and learns differently and let them do what works best for somebody what they did was swap one closed system for a different closed system. IOWs, more than CC is at hand here.
  7. h50

    h50

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    Teachers are free to teach their methods as far as the standard itself is concerned, but when states, cities, districts and principal get involved it get distorted at each level. Many NYC teachers are left following a video so they don't get written up, those teachers that didn't leave the school system that is. I'd challenge anybody to look at CC math and say it's broken except for the large and previously later years quantity of things it's asking the kids to know. Just like a pre-k'er is now supposed to know going into it what a first grader used to know at the end of that school year. And atop that, impossibly, is the dumbing down at the same time. Also, remember too that may Regents classes are now CC Regents (yes, it finally caught up with HS). Much of school private and public has been institutional, and about money and about controlling people, for the worse IMO.
    Monty_monty likes this.
  8. h50

    h50

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    497
    I'm not defending it as this is an ongoing problem with standards, state tests, etc. Unfortunately NYS Dept of Ed makes errors. As well, they also put in distractors. I think the distractors should be illegal or some such prohibition but they aren't. Also the kids are taught certain things in certain ways and are expected to know them as such, oddities or not. Lastly I haven't see a standard test yet including SAT, etc that doesn't have artifacts of the problem you mention. The level of ambiguousness is ridiculous. Yep, it sucks. Often many questions are removed (don't count afterwards). You would have though they caught more beforehand, speaking of rigor. Sigh :(
  9. Monty_monty

    Monty_monty

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    While CC was created by committees with less than 5% with any practical experience, or mathematics and education expertise; so it might have been pushed in public as a unified education (much like NY States Regents classes are used to set the standard statewide, but teachers are free to teach to their methods) so in theory it wasn't curriculum but in practice and I am of the opinion that it was designed purposefully that way. The Progressives (aka communist, socialist, marxist advocates - John Dewey, Friedrich Fröbel) have been redesigning American Public Education with the goal of lowering educational/critical thinking performance its been a long slow con, but as with anything once their changes are started the "next step" comes sooner and more aggressive.

    For create resource of how/what CC is and why..... follow Bruce Deitrick
    http://www.americanthinker.com/author/bruce_deitrick_price/
    for those that had CC English education here it is in video format: https://www.youtube.com/user/BruceDeitrickPrice
    vad1 likes this.
  10. iwantagoodhj247

    iwantagoodhj247

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    I was asked to watch a neighbor's kid for an hour a while back, some sort of emergency, and while there the kid was doing his math homework. I'm no genius either but math has never been a problem for me. In grade school the multiplication tables were so drilled into us that by 5th grade I knew up to the 15 times table by heart. This kid was doing multiplication and was in the 4th grade at the time. When I saw what the break down was to do 10x11 I was shocked. I asked, what is that exactly? He answered, that's how to figure out the problem. I just sat back and watched in stunned silence. I wanted to correct the procedure so badly but didn't want to mess up how this kid had learned to figure out the problem.
    When the parent got home I inquired what the heck was going on with the math nowadays. She replied, oh god, it's that idiotic common core math. Parents can no longer do math with their kids b/c anyone who was taught to do math traditionally can't figure out what the heck is going on.
    I never looked into it b/c it doesn't effect me in the slightest, but they said, it's like they dumb it down so the even the slowest kids in the class can keep up. Remember, no child left behind anymore. But there are no times tables anymore, no flash cards, no memorization. It's terrible what they've done to math.
    So. I may have spoken out of turn knowing nothing about it, but seeing it first hand for an hour, something that in my education would have taken 10 minutes took this kid over an hour, he wasn't done when I left, and hearing the parents complaint, seems like this might be part of the problem and not part of the solution...
    That's all.
    vad1 likes this.
  11. WizardOfAhhs

    WizardOfAhhs

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    True. CC is the broad set of skills they're expected to master, curriculum is the day to day tasks that get them there.
    A few years ago I had the occasion to take the 3rd grade NY state math test (just for fun, right?). Now, I may not label myself a genius, but I do have three college degrees, and third grade math isn't usually a problem. I got all the questions right except one. And on the one I got wrong, even once I was given the correct answer, the question was written in such a way that it took me 10 minutes to find out where I went wrong. The wording of the question was that bad. I later found out that in the class of 30 kids that took it, not one kid got that question right. That isn't rigor. That's bullshit.
    vad1 likes this.
  12. Mr. Joyboy

    Mr. Joyboy

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    580
    Boy, this is sure a tough crowd, lol!
  13. h50

    h50

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    CC is not a curriculum, never even meant to be one.

    CC math is indeed rigorous and advanced, even more than previous assorted standard etc as future grade material is moved into lower grades. In anything, that is one of it's main problems educationally speaking.


    Yes and no. Yes in that the SAT is a target to eventually be met, no in that CC is one way to get you to that target among other things.
  14. h50

    h50

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    497
    Actually common core math is quite reasonable, the scary part that gets all the press is not really part of the specification. The so-called dumbing down stuff is not literally (to go back into this thread :) part of CC, but an interpretation of an implementation of it. Same thing could have been done with non-CC and was in some cases, just not commonly.
  15. Mr. Joyboy

    Mr. Joyboy

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    And remember that it is a minimum set of standards that schools can add to. For those who denigrate Common Core as reducing educational levels to a lowest common denominator, if they took the time to actually look at the common core curricula for math, they would probably be surprised how rigorous the standards are. It's not all-encompassing (for instance, there may not be a calculus component to it) but most schools offer advanced courses to those students who are aiming at STEM careers.
  16. genius

    genius

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    7,506
    Ah, isn't that the purpose of the SAT's and ACT's?

    Wait —. aren't a lot of the colleges no longer using those tests to determine qualifications for admission and/or scholarships?
  17. WizardOfAhhs

    WizardOfAhhs

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    Without taking a position for or against, just to explain....that's not what common core is. It isn't the "core" of a subject, i.e. devoid of all the extras. It was meant to overcome the fact that curriculum was/is set at the local level, and in some schools and states, that curriculum was lacking in rigor, so a student graduating public HS in CT had a far different skill set than a student graduating public HS in AL. The "common core" was meant to be a nationwide curriculum, so that no matter where a student went to school, all HS grads in the US had at least met a minimum set of requirements that were common to all states.
  18. iwantagoodhj247

    iwantagoodhj247

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    Anyone ever try to understand "common core" math? Now that's some scary shit. Some students are too dumb to understand simple math so we'll break it down to a "common core", so all students have to do it the dumb people way. No student left behind anymore! Even if that means sending them to the next grade with zero understanding of basic math.
    I luv the USA, but we may be getting ourselves into a bit of trouble here...
  19. WizardOfAhhs

    WizardOfAhhs

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    Good job catching the error in "...I would have got...".
    "...have gotten..." is correct.
  20. genius

    genius

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    7,506
    "self professed" Ha!. For your information I am constantly referred to as a genius.
    Happens all the time.

    For example, just the other day, when the cashier I complained about to her boss about incorrect change saw me coming to her lane, she leaned over to the bagger and said "Oh god — here comes that f**king genius again".

    So there!

    Even a mere minimum wage cashier at a supermarket recognizes genius when she sees it.
    vad1 and LIwaste like this.