GREED- is this a good or bad thing!

Discussion in 'General Industry Related Topics' started by Carl M, Feb 26, 2001.

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  1. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

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    Guy: Your rebuttal is, as I expected, erudite and complete. What strikes me at first glance is, do the normal contributers to the board really care to read this? Isn't your point by point critique of my post rather tiresome to most hobbyists?

    You suggested that the infatuation that Phantom and I have experienced for individual providers is not a subject that you care to read about on UG. I take that criticism to heart, and I apologize for sharing my feelings about the one provider, whom, in my long involvement in "this thing of ours," captivated my heart. That is over, and I fully realize that I played out my own feelings for her on UG. That will not happen again, at least if I can be rational. I apologize to all of you who have endured my emotive posts.

    But, I also want to thank everyone for making me understand that, at bottom, this entire enterprise can be boiled down to "money for sex." Somehow, I forgot that, at least in this case. I doubt that I will ever again be lured into believing that I can have a "relationship" with a provider, apart from the sexual one.

    Regarding legalizing the hobby, we seem to be in agreement. What troubles me is, in our postmodern world, we, as hobbyists, face an overwhelming opposition. I wish I could concur that the left would support us, but, Bill aside, I see little evidence to make me optimistic.

    Finally, I thank you for your kind words about my perception and defense of providers. They are, obviously, the sine qua non of the hobby. I take their side because I have rarely been disappointed by a woman in this business and because I recognize how formidable the obstacles to their success can be.

    Sorry if I "bit your head off" earlier. Invective and discursive polemics are a natural part of my writing and thinking. It was not warranted, but I was too immersed in my "relationship" to be objective. Further, I was a "cucumber" regarding our errant poster on TBD, because I seldom correspond with primates. If my mother was not in intensive care as I write, perhaps I could have been more crass. But, that particular idiot's invective paled in comparison to the real life situation I continue to confront. I ignored him, explaining his existence as proof that Freud's Civilization and Its Discontents had some validity.

    I doubt this answers all your concerns. If it doesn't, let's get together at a bar to talk in more depth.. I do not want to put the rest of the hobby to sleep.
  2. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    But I AM a sinner.
    And besides I also like to rubberneck
    Besides, I need the comic relief
  3. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    it was kinda "witty" the first time. but, it's kinda 'witless' the second time.

    btw, i thought you were going to go forth and sin no more. have you been backsliding?
  4. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    I actually thought it was a right witty retort.
  5. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    well, that does not explain the wholly inappropriate rage above, nor the "headache", nor the heaping of one insult after another -- to no point or issue -- just flaming for the sake of flaming.

    i've all but ignored you since our second exchange. yet, you continue with one attack after another. i think it says a lot about your maturity level.
  6. Phantom

    Phantom

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    I guess for the same reason people slow down and rubberneck at accidents that they pass while driving, to see a bloody mess.
  7. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    then we do you read my posts? i don't read the posts of people whose posts i don't enjoy or find informative.
  8. Phantom

    Phantom

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    :confused: :(

    GOD do I have a fucking headache. :rolleyes:
  9. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    jmcurry,

    by way of backround, the last time i posted a message to you, in an attempt to offer you some solace, you practically bit my head off: http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2880#post2880

    yet, when a stranger on tbd made a comment to you that is well within the ambit of the "fighting words doctrine", you were as calm as a cucumber: http://209.164.24.17/newyork/posts/21364.html

    it's all a little 'ierd' to me.

    ....Phantom, I hope that GC is pulling your chain. If he is not, then your indignation is not only appropriate, but rather mild.

    that statement would not have been an appropriate to direct at Hitler or Stalin, much less a client kidding around with an escort. that's my opinion. but to say it was 'relatively mild', in any context, is not a matter of opinion. it is plainly false.

    ....GC, Phantom has been through a great deal. I have as well, recently, along similar lines. Playing a role can wear on one's nerves, even if you are doing it in good fun. Some of us have actually become infatuated, or even more attached, to a "provider." That affects all aspects of our nexus to the hobby.

    i was already aware that you and Phantom think that your romantic disappointments are a subject of general interest for the board -- an interest i don't share. but, frankly, the above statement suggests a level of self-absorption i did not suspect. do you think that puts either of you in some special category that the rest of aren't also in (without using it as an excuse for having a public tantrum)?

    ....I have recently refrained from putting my own personal feelings and relationships on this, or any other, board. The last time I did, someone attacked my mother.

    i alone called that poster on his remark to you (see above). and, i didn't make excuses for him. btw, that you no longer post about personal matters (which you have done in the past with great eloquence and sensitivity) confirms the 'de facto' censorship i have complained of here and elsewhere. in my own case, i haven't posted my personal feelings about escorts (for the most part) since i posted my first set of reviews to jag more than a year-and-a-half ago, for reasons not too dissimilar from yours. likewise, all but the newest escorts (who aren't yet fed up with 'taking crap' from boors) have been similarly censored.

    Are we as evil as the religious right thinks we are?

    Rather than attack each other, maybe we should unite against those who vilify us.


    clients vying for the attention of escorts, imo, is not the problem jag members find it to be. i agree that what we do here is 'grist' for the religious right's 'mill', on the issue of internet censorship. but, in terms of keeping our eye on the (real) prize -- legalization -- it's the political left that must be won over.

    by their very nature, the 'religious right' can never be 'neutral' on this matter, even if every client/escort interaction from now to the end of time were perfectly wonderful. however, the political left can be neutralized, at least to the degree we can show that this thing of ours is not "inherently degrading to all women", as they insist it is.

    you have been unfailingly (much more so than i) exemplary in this matter. but, there are those fools who insist on publically insulting the whole class of escorts in any way their baser instincts move them to, as long as the dictionary allows wiggle room to believe that there exists some noninsulting way of using the same vocabulary (at least that seems to be their latest rhetorical gambit). such behavior is of great benefit to our many enemies on both the left and the right. likewise, in effect censoring postings from clients like yourself, and escorts who won't put up with the insults, deprives us, by that portion, of an "artistic or redeeming social value" defense that the left would otherwise be only too eager to embrace (unlike the religious right).

    guy


    [Edited by guy catelli on 02-28-2001 at 01:31 PM]
  10. Carl M

    Carl M Hanging by a thread

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    Re: Re: Re: The Reason You Are Shortchanged...

    NO Comment!!
  11. Assman

    Assman

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    Re: Re: The Reason You Are Shortchanged...

    Are you making rules now? Well, at least you did not disagree with my post.
  12. Carl M

    Carl M Hanging by a thread

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    Re: The Reason You Are Shortchanged...

  13. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    Originally posted by K.S.:
    GC,
    ........Listen, you have a FETISH. I mean, it would turn YOU on to find a girl with a European accent and an acquaintance with Foucault ....


    i have; and, it does.

    - who also, very conveniently, would suck your dick for money.

    if you must know, it's the way she licks my nuts that i find most exciting.

    How is that any more elevated and noble than having a fetish for chicks with big feet?

    why can't i have both? her shoe size is 10.

    ...........You're a nice fellow,

    {nods}

    ...and you've never done anything to hurt me.

    {nods again}

    I'm sure you also recognize that I have no real stake here - I am not going to make more or less money based on the persona I portray.

    {nodding still}

    I just feel ridiculously compelled to argue with you because you approach everything from a completely different angle than I approach life, myself.

    i see.
  14. frog

    frog

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    you go girl!
  15. frog

    frog

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    K.S. !!!
  16. K.S.

    K.S.

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    GC, why do you do this?

    If you're that fucking brilliant, then I think you ought to find a more suitable message board to do your little dance on.

    One of the reasons, I now realize, I stayed at the Golden Gypsy for so many years was that I got to be "the smart one." Sure, I'm a clever little monkey - but: to paraphrase Malcome X -

    Q) Do you know what they call a prostitute with a BA in art history?

    A) A whore!

    Why on EARTH does it matter if a provider has an interest or an opinion on Plato? Does that make her a better lay? Sure, it might be nice to pass the time with someone whose interests go beyond Jerry Springer, but you have GOT to STOP being infatuated with these silly superficial things!

    Listen, you have a FETISH. I mean, it would turn YOU on to find a girl with a European accent and an acquaintance with Foucault - who also, very conveniently, would suck your dick for money. How is that any more elevated and noble than having a fetish for chicks with big feet? It's OK to be attracted to the women you like, but you have to understand that you are not going to be winning any arguments by claiming that you're a better trick than the other guys.

    I used to have customers who thought I was cute because I was so precocious and clever. I didn't necessarily respect or like them any more than the blue-collar guys who liked me just because I was friendly and gave good head.

    Disclaimer: You're a nice fellow, and you've never done anything to hurt me. I'm sure you also recognize that I have no real stake here - I am not going to make more or less money based on the persona I portray. I just feel ridiculously compelled to argue with you because you approach everything from a completely different angle than I approach life, myself.

    [Edited by K.S. on 02-26-2001 at 10:14 PM]
  17. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    jmcurry,

    i would be glad to rebut you now, but for the fact that i just retrieved from the lab the cd of some photographs i shot of a well known cybercourtesan this past weekend.

    and then, as i was opening up the files in photoshop to do some postproduction work on them, i received an email from her requesting that i review some material she has recently written.

    in some not insignificant sense, her work is a continuation of Plato's Symposium. as an idealist, i am, perforce, a Platonist to some degree. i therefore must attend to this happy task she has set for me without delay. but, i will return to your challenge anon.

    guy
  18. Assman

    Assman

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    The Reason You Are Shortchanged...

  19. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

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    It is difficult to get in between Phantom and GC here, {especially because I am not a provider :)} because I have communicated privately with both, and because I find each of them insightful and refreshing in many ways. So, my response may be too tepid for either. Nonetheless, I believe there is room for further conversation.

    Phantom, I hope that GC is pulling your chain. If he is not, then your indignation is not only appropriate, but rather mild. Although his language is inflated with, perhaps, too many philosophical allusions, mine is as well. I believe that he genuinely offers substance to the hobby and that his posts must be read through a lense of sarcasm and deconstruction. Maybe I am deluding myself, and I am willing to consider any criticism to the contrary.

    GC, Phantom has been through a great deal. I have as well, recently, along similar lines. Playing a role can wear on one's nerves, even if you are doing it in good fun. Some of us have actually become infatuated, or even more attached, to a "provider." That affects all aspects of our nexus to the hobby.

    We should be able to joke and comment about expense, GFE status, incall v. outcall, and independent v agency, but we need to have some kind of common bond, where we do not unduly demean each other.

    I have recently refrained from putting my own personal feelings and relationships on this, or any other, board. The last time I did, someone attacked my mother. Are we as evil as the religious right thinks we are?

    Rather than attack each other, maybe we should unite against those who vilify us.

    I am ready for rebuttals, my all time GFE postponed a get together once again.
  20. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    If people here want to test my patience, I guess there's not much that I can do to stop them. However, those who know me will tell you that I usually stand for stuff up to a point, and then react....in the extreme. It's usually not to pleasant when that happens.