Kindness: In the harsh world of providers and clients.

Discussion in 'New York' started by Richardrzhpippin, Apr 8, 2001.

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  1. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    please name one '*innocent* victim', if you know of any.

    there were no '*innocent* victims' of McCarthyism that i have been able to discover in 15 years of (admittedly casual and unsystematic) study of the issue.

    almost no lives were 'ruined'. there were people who lost *glamour* jobs that depended upon popularity -- because they did unpopular things -- like betraying their family, friends, and the wider community to Joseph Stalin, and then cynically manipulating as many innocent well wishers as they could into self-destructively making common cause with them.

    there were also people who lost *unglamourous* government jobs that were postions of trust -- because they had really gone out of their way to demonstrate *untrustworthiness*.

    McCarthy poisoned the well by questioning the motives of those people, especially the ones in the Democratic party, who wanted to cover up the extent of the treason because its scale was a major embarrassment to many. McCarthy and his followers took the position, ~Let's *not* 'move on', until there has been a full public accounting for the massive betrayals of the 30's and 40's~

    eventually (as his alcoholism made him ever more reckless), he was practically accusing Eisenhower of being a traitor. by becoming increasingly hysterical in questioning the motives of those who were continuing to suck on their collective thumb and pretend that *nothing* had happened, he set back the cause of anticommunism for two decades.

    however, the left had badly harmed itself, too, because it was so deeply split between those who wanted the truth to come out, and those who for tactical reasons wanted to cover it up. there were *many* on the left who essentailly sided with 'McCarthyism' (though not with Mccarthy himself, of course).

    thus, a large part of the reason why the US has been among the most indeologially centrist polities ever since is because both the right and the left did so much self-inflicted damage during this period.

    but, the truth of the core of McCarthy's charges is even more clear now than it was then: not only was there a massive betrayal, there was an even more massive coverup. but, contrary to McCarthy's thrust, the coverup was not evidence of wider treason, but rather the usual ignorance, laziness, and just general pigheadedness that is the stuff of everyday life.

    for a very moving personal account of one man's finally coming to terms with the discomfiting truth that being ugly and evil is not necessarily the same as being *mistaken*, see: http://www.nybooks.com/nyrev/WWWarchdisplay.cgi?20000511053R
  2. HAPPY GUY

    HAPPY GUY

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    208
    I agree that Elia Kazan is a brilliant filmmaker and that he deserves to be honored for his body of work. I'm not disputing his getting an award, but let's be real: a lot of people had their careers and lives ruined by his actions. The fact that people refused to stand is completely understandable in my book. He was a rat who gave into pressure.
  3. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    Alec Baldwin....another prize.


    alec........red october....sequels, sequels, sequels ?

    you dummy.
  4. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    19,495
    Ozzy,
    If you're going to post Dr.Luara links, at least link to her nude pics. Oh, yeah, no one wanted to pay for them, so you can't find them anymore......
  5. Richardrzhpippin

    Richardrzhpippin

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    304
    Kindess and what was that again?

    It just keeps getting better and better.....
  6. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    i was at the office at that moment. however, i had arranged in advance for 3 different friends to watch at home and to call me with their reports on how it looked live. later, i saw newsclips of the event.

    Karl Malden introduced the presenters of the special Oscar. Malden had bitterly opposed Kazan politically. thus, Malden's earlier lobbying of the Academy on behalf of Kazan's artistic greatness had been instrumental in the Academy's controversial decision to give Kazan that year's Life Achievement Award.

    the presenters were Martin Scorcese and Robert DeNiro. their greatest collaboration, and one of the most critically acclaimed films of all time, Raging Bull, was a virtual homage to the style of filmmaking Kazan had been one of the pioneers of.

    on their feet, applauding with great enthusism, were Meryl Streep and Warren Beatty. sitting and scowling in alcoholic semi-stupor, were Nick Nolte and Alec Baldwin.

    given the respective intelligence and/or character of these personages, there were no great surprises that night.
  7. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    2,190
    The reaction of the audience at the Academy Awards when Kazan received his award was disgraceful.
  8. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    guy....


    there are a great many, that go without saying.....
  9. guy catelli

    guy catelli

    Messages:
    478
    not that you asked me, but, in this regard, i would like to mention Elia Kazan. see: http://www.moderntimes.com/palace/kazan
  10. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    2,190
    Cant help but agree with you about the likes of Kathy Lee( her whole life is a sham), Oprah, Dr. Laura...etc.
    Thanks for the input and for realizing that I wasnt trying to bait you.
    Take care, HP
  11. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    one more for the road....


    dr laura schelessinger.......go hate some more people who aren't like you...you bitch.

    and she calls herself a doctor......know what she's got her doctorate in? fucking.... phys ed. i'm more of a shrink than she is.


    now heres a fucking hypocrite for you .....

    http://www.drlaura.com/collection/


    :cool:

    [Edited by Ozzy on 04-14-2001 at 02:40 PM]
  12. no kidding. every time i see one of those "send your teenager to bootcamp 'cause they talk sass" shows my mind is blown. these kids are getting totally fucked up because montel needs ratings and some pop psychologist has a"theory."
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    pee wee herman.

    no really, theres a bunch (theres tons of class acts in sports, just not tiger) and heres a few and why....

    in hollywood...
    george c scott.......for telling the academy to basically shove it!......twice. besides he made george s patton, likable.

    mia farrow.......(maybe a little crazy) but, wheres her mother of the year award. give another one to kathy lee and rosie who have 10 nurse maids and nannys between them...


    in sports... how about Lance Armstrong. but again that list is endless.....gretzky,marino,ripken,gwynn.......it's not just the stuff on the field either.


    it's not that hard to get *my* respect.......just don't be a fucking hypocrite or phony and think of someone other than yourself. which is why people like kathy lee and oprah are in the toilet of my list. oprah...that cunt is worth in the area of a billion $$$....she gives a few thousand stinkin dollars (like a nickel to her) to charity and calls every god damn news paper to cover it. how about the people (stars and celebs) who go unannounced to hospitals to visit sick children (marino and gretzky are known to do this...a lot). you think oprah could do that......not without dateline ahe ain't.

    you wanted my opinions, there you have it...just ask. i've got lots, and since they're mine.....there the only ones that count.........to me anyway.
  14. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    2,190
    Ozzy,
    With all due respect( 'cause I certainly wouldnt want to get on your bad side), I am curious to know, who in the wide world of entertainment, sports, academics- whatever, you give your respect to.
    take care, HP
  15. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    well at least you spread your love evenly...........lol ;)



    it's just that the same house frows who i hear all day saying what a scum bag HS is...in the same breath, they praise jerry and robbin as well as sally jessie and montel who ruin 14 yr olds every fucking day on their shows. btw montel married a girl named bambi jr....she did a mother daughter strip club act...mom was bambi sr. another fucking hypocrite. and lets not get me started on that fat cow dyke rosie (how many times is she gonna say she loves that fag tom cruise).....ROSIE...YOUR GAY! who the fuck are you kidding? go berate and fire another poor intern for forgetting to bring you your lunch on time. and rikki lake another fucking hypocrite(who's also a cow)...i sat two tables away from her at NOBU once and watched her chow down on a nice fat japanese steak......where was PITA that day.


    ok, enough of my ranting on fucking hypocrites...see sb, you ain't so bad. now go out and get yourself a freebie today.....and enjoy.


    ps.....those are two cows you won't find me or my friends around.

    [Edited by Ozzy on 04-14-2001 at 11:40 AM]
  16. robin also managed to spread herpes to a cocktail waitress he was involved with (while married to wife #1). he paid her an undisclosed amount of money. he ended up married to the babysitter. seinfeld i hate because channel 5 replaced the 11pm simpsons with his boring/overrated show. btw, it was lenny bruce who coined the phrase, "yadda yadda yadda." seinfeld has never made mention of this as he allowed a bunch of fools to believe he had "invented" "yadda yadda yadda."

    so, to answer your question: they're both bums...
  17. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    so whats your opinion of jerry sienfield or robin williams....nice guys right?

    robin fucked his 15 yr old baby sitter and sienfield dated a 16 yr old. again...very nice guys.
  18. i'm not a fan of howard's. where some might see some sort of benevolence on his part i simply see a man who is making fun of people who lead challenging lives. he does this, imo, to help his listeners feel superior to the truly unfortunate. woman are either "sluts" or "whores" and everybody who walks through his doors is treated in a demeaning way (even if they don't perceive it as such). howard's act reminds me of a scene in some western where the town drunk is cajoled into drinking from a spitoon in order to get a shiny gold piece with which to buy more booze. that is not charity; that is cruelty.
  19. DannyNJ

    DannyNJ

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    396
    I'm not about to get into a silly argument about Howard Sterns morals here, but the facts are facts:

    1) He has gotten guys who would never normally get laid LAID. And that's the whole point of this thread.

    2) He is a supporter of both people in this hobby and providers, not to mention strippers & porn stars.

    3) He brought Ana of NY to our attention.

    If it helps his show, great for him. But it helps us too.
    Everyone is entitled to his opinion, and I happen to be a big fan.
  20. littleguy

    littleguy Gold

    Messages:
    2,004
    Funny thing Guy. I've thought of you as MANY things, but COMMON was never one of them.

    Hahahahahahaha