Peeking In..

Discussion in 'New York' started by Kimmie, Aug 21, 2001.

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  1. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    Kimmie - Just got to keep you honest (like to avoid Slinky's Three Stooges comment - though I did think it was very cute - can I say that word).

    Beep9 - I can assure you that I have no bitterness. I am a fan of baseball first and foremost. But the reality of it is that it is all about buying baseball players and money today. Whether it is assuming a large contract in a trade which your team can do because it can afford it, or paying your pre-free agent players tons of money to avoid them testing the market to the signing of free agents it is all about money. I don't begrudge George or the Yankees for doing it - he can afford it - but he does it (to the betterment of his team).

    Every year you read with amazement about the small market teams who are putting together remarkable years. But for the most part those teams don't last for the long haul. The dismantling of the Expos in the early mid 90's, the Florida Marlins after the 97 series. It is all about money because that's what the players go for and to the owners who will pay. (except of course for Mike Hampton who was so enamored of the Denver school system).

    Everyone can talk about how the Mets could have and should have had ARod - but Hicks threw him 250 million dollars and no one was even close. It's easy for him to say on Aug 23 that he would have taken less from the Mets.

    BTW - that's a big reason why I absolutely cannot stand baseketball anymore. 5.3 million for Charlie Ward. 100 million contract like its water. Ticket prices out of control - $300 to take a family of four to a Knick game (and have mediocre seats at best). Hell - give me the WNBA anytime.

    Back to baseball - the reason why I would absolutely love to see Seattle (or the A's) win it all is because PAt Gillick is the best general manager in baseball and has been for the past 10 years. A shrewd talent evaluator is has put together great teams in Toronto and now Seattle.

    No - I'm not an anti-Yankee fan (I am an anti-George fan though - hell you can't like everyone), but I am a BASEBALL fan. (And I both played it and taught it - and I am not Ralph Kiner). But it is unfortunately not the same for me that it once was.
  2. Jeff

    Jeff

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    its rolleyes not eyeroll :p hehe
  3. Kimmie

    Kimmie

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    OMG SKELLY!!

    It was a freaking TYPO!!!!! :eyeroll:
    Dont you all ever make typos? Sheesh!!! Bite me will yah? ;)
    If you are going to be this picky, I am going to go buy a spell check to post.. :)

    Randy Vilarde is a negative..
  4. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    VofR(HN),
    If not referring to the Yankees in your original post( "crybabies"), then who?
    HP( VOTM)

    [Edited by Hotpuppy on 08-24-2001 at 06:12 AM]
  5. Humble Narrator

    Humble Narrator

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    to HP and Ez

    Gentlemen: please note in my original post that I made no reference to the Yankees, ever.

    Odd though that you both seemed to link my characterization with the Yankees.

    - VoFR
  6. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    Skemp ( hahaha - are you one of the Howard brothers now ????? ),

    That's what I meant with "Make a team out of these guys, and match them up against the team of guys who the mets got for them in return". And how about a certain second baseman from teh Cubs who lead the league in strikeouts ????? And who did the Mets give up for him ? And did he last one season ?
  7. beep9

    beep9

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    348




    Skell, I sure as hell am not a Yankee fan, but, damn it, I expect better of you.



    George buys the ballplayers. That flew high and hard before he was suspended. When he was out of the game, though, his staff started putting together a very nice minor league system, from which has come (todays game) 3rd, short, 2nd, catcher, [Did Spencer play today? If so, LF), and CF. So, I'll toss you for the right side, and it's open speculation how much longer they can hold Johnson down.



    I don't have a list of their rotation in front of me, and I will grant that it is not as home-grown as the rest, but give credit where credit's due. Finally, the pickup of Justice was (IIRC) entirely based on home grown's.



    [Whimper]I think the only team with fewer imports and free agents is my beloved A's, who so f'ing desperately need a closer. I could live with the bullpen and a case of zantac, if only there were a closer[/whimper]





    All of the young Yankee fans (I can't say whether that includes you) are Johnny (or Jane)-cum-latelys who jumped on the bandwagon of a team that was playing well and winning. Those are not fans or we'll see how big of fans they are when the worm turns (as it always does) and they're not going so well.





    Met fans are the Kings of NY because MEt fans are true fans - through thick and thin.




    This is just pure unadulterated bitterness. In fact, I think the only proper way to respond is to recall an absolutely lovely, scathing quote from the Boy Chip of the South (not to be confused with the boychik of the south), and wonder if it's still too early in the season for you to pull your Yankee gear out of the closet.



    In the 70's and 80's, both Mets and Yankees went through times of horrific performance and horrific attendance. From comments made above, you can tell that I know what it's like to root for a team that doesn't have a shot of .500, and both teams have been there.



    You want true loyalty? I was in a shul just before the break, and two alter kocher's in the back started a fight over Giants Dodgers. The shul was in Brooklyn, and neither of these guys had ever been to California.
  8. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    2,000
    Kimmie - Who's Skemp?????????? If you're referring to me get the name right, please. BTW - don't think I ever said I was a Met fan - just that I think Met fans are truer fans.

    HP - Now that is a totally different question. The answer is obviously no one.

    Can't argue with the number of titles the Yankees have - but you have to look at it in perspective. Specifically, there were only 8 teams, the only postseason was the WS and most importantly, once you had a good or great ballplayer he was yours for life because he couldn't go anywhere or play anywhere else.

    Slinky - Amos was a very good one. If you want to count one year wonders, Jim Hickman had a great year for the Cubbies after the Mets got rid of him. There is a flip side too. Put together a team of great or good players who the Mets obtained who were a shadow of their former selfs or otherwise tanked. Fregosi, Foster, Barega. It is an interesting phenomenon.

    [Edited by SkellyChamp on 08-24-2001 at 12:03 AM]
  9. tomahawk9

    tomahawk9

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    169
    The powerful New York Giants had blocked other teams from coming into Manhattan until 1903, when a truce was declared with the American League.

    The old Orioles were then purchased and moved to 168th and Broadway, one of the highest points on the island - part of the reason for the name Highlanders. It is still essential for any sports league looking to go big-time to have a franchise in New York.

    I was at a lecture where a guy showed how baseball comes from New York City - created in Madison Square Park, grew up in Brooklyn, became the way we know it in Harlem. He's still around.
  10. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    SC,
    No further arguement from me about "buying " players. We will agree to disagree. Here's the thing though: how many baseball fans, if given the opportunity, would reject having a winning team( much less 4 out of 5 world championships) because the owner of the team " bought " the requisite players?
    take care HP
  11. Bill Furniture

    Bill Furniture Flounder

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    10,182
    Did anybody else know that The Yankees were originally named The Baltimore Orioles? I found this out when I went to the Hall Of Fame a few years ago. I recently read in a book that they moved the team to NY because the owners believed that in order for the league to make money, there had to be a team in NY. They were called The NY Highlanders because they played ball in an area of Manhattan known as The Highlands, then the NY Yankees in the teens.
  12. robnotbob

    robnotbob

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    2,912
    slink: I woulda guessed Eddie Murray.

    What happened to Velarde that Jeter took his spot??

    Easy to be Met Fan in MID 80's...MAYBE..

    80-82 Horror show
    1983 - Straw..some hope
    1984 Doc, Hernandez..more hope
    1985 - Carter....why dont the goddamn Cardinals lose
    1986 - Champs
    1987- Gooden rehab
    1988 -Goddamn Sciosia

    Thats about it until 1998.
  13. wimpy

    wimpy

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    Randy Velarde
  14. Kimmie

    Kimmie

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    Skemp, I am glad for your devotion to your team. I respect that. I will be a fan till there is no longer a Yankee team.. I love baseball. The crack of the bat, the sound of a ball being caught in a mitt. I just love the whole game.. Yankees, Mets, doesnt matter..
    History shows who the dominate team is in baseball.. I will let that speak for itself..

    Heres a question no bandwagon jumper would know..

    Who was the SS for the Yankees before Jeter? And what happened to him that Jeter replaced him for 13 games in 1995?

    Kisses
    LETS GO YANKEES!!
  15. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    SC,

    Yup, Vida Blue. I thought it was an interesting question for this thread because: he was on the A's team I rerferenced, no one thinks about a switch hitting MVP as a pitcher, you wouldn't even have a switch hitting pitcher in the AL anymore.

    Here's another question: what is it about being traded away from the Met's that makes players so good ? Just think back about all the players who left the Met's and turned into stars ? ( was Amos Otis the first big case of this ??? ok, he wasn't that great , but he did get over 2000 hits and 1000 RBI's). Make a team out of these guys, and match them up against the team of guys who the mets got for them in return ( post it here, I'd be curious as to what you guys come up with !!! ).
  16. Bill Furniture

    Bill Furniture Flounder

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    10,182
    I've heard announcers call the Montreal Expos a farm club for the Major League teams.
  17. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    Slinky - you are absolutely correct about the A's

    But it's hard to beat the Expos for developing talent
  18. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    2,000
    Kimmie - Perhaps you should read carefully before you write - I very specifically said I can't say whether that includes you.

    And I stand by what I said about young Yankee fans (whether that includes anyone on this board or not I do not know and don't really care).

    Actually - I don't think about the Yankees at all, but I love a good argument. I could care less whether Seattle wins more games than the Yankees did.

    And it is still a matter of buying ballplayers whether you get them in a trade (affording their salary or promising a big extension), bring 'em up through the system (sign em to a big contract before they can test the waters or pay them the big bucks they get through arbitation) or sign them as a free agent.

    Wimpy - perhaps you should take a couple of deep breathes and call Julies.

    Slinky - Vida Blue (1971) is the correct answer
    and before him the Mick of course
  19. Kimmie

    Kimmie

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    5,642
    No arguments slinky.. just good ole fashion baseball debates.. :)

    True the Yankees are from a bigger market, however, thats why those who use this lame excuse need to think twice.. Mets are a NY team, last I heard. They made no real effort to better their team this year..

    Anyway.. want to see my Roger Clemens pix? :)

    Kisses
    LETS GO YANKEES!!
  20. Ezrlove

    Ezrlove

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    279
    Bernie Williams?