Rev of Ms. XXX or 24 hours in the Twilight Zone?

Discussion in 'New York' started by Phantom, Jul 23, 2001.

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  1. Phantom

    Phantom

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    I would just like to thank everybody who posted their thoughts, opinions and comments, whether they be positive or negitive, in this thread or in private emails. I believe it has gotten to the point were no further good can be derived from continued discussion of this matter. There are most likely some of you who will think that I'm just running away, but at times there comes a point when people are so entrenced in their beliefs that no amount of discussion will change their positions. I believe that this thread has reached that point.

    Slinky, it would not brother me in the least if you closed this thread.
  2. Carl M

    Carl M Hanging by a thread

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    Thanks for your support WSB, coming from you I take this as a high compliment. Come to the next UG Gig out here in the sticks and I'll buy you a beer! I might be beaten and battered, but Im still here!
  3. ew

    ew Silver

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    I mention Beth because her feelings are more prevalent than the typical webscort would have anyone believe.

    And I disagree onthe retirement, she will rise like the Phoenix from the ashes. Someone probably just contacted her thinking about all the extra mileage already...

    FWIW, the use of J is self-imposed. It is not a ban like GC'c name was.
  4. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    i thought beth went way over the line especially considering she wasn't even mentioned. i thought her post was provider/business suicide. you won't get too many new clients with posts like that. at least she knew enough to announce her retirement.


    wsb...

    the reason for the "J" thing was posted on jag and UG in an earlier thread and since there are so many new members here i think it's best not to post the reason(it would defeat the purpose)....though i think it is pretty obvious why some people out of respect for J's privacy don't post her full name. at least she learned and uses becka and janine on her other ads.

    was that enough hints.......
  5. ew

    ew Silver

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    485
    Where did the anger in the thread come from
    (re: Beth/Crater)?

    Well JC does have a rather clear view of what the dynamic is, although he might be indelicate as I am sure he would admit, and that is money for sex. Those who have the money set the ground rules. Those who have a lot of money use that to get what they want whether it is "better" service, "additional" service, and "discounted" service. The money we have are the strings whereby we attempt to make another person do what we want.

    So this allows us to define whom retired ladies see as their "selected" group. The selected group are the clients culled from their large client base who are willing to pay the increased rates they charge when they retire. Please get a grip. This group is not so select. There are many ladies in NJ who charge comparable rates for lesser service than Nicole. So this select group is actually much larger than you'd like to think, after all you would not be able to make up the difference in income no matter how much money you have. But, I suspect (actually I am sure) that the good ones control us to a degree that we don’t even know it. This includes J’s ability to elicit sympathy and retired escort to get paid more for what they provided for less previously.

    By admission you have seen the best of the best. I think that the providers who are reading this know, and can attest (though they may not), that it is the skill that they possess to make every booking a special booking. So do not assume that since you have had 12 for 12 (which by itself makes me laugh, do you keep exploded pie charts of services rendered bbbjtc 40% etc) that it was anything in you that made for that winning streak, besides your money.

    The toughest meeting, in my opinion is the first one. That is the skill that some escorts have mastered with their chameleon abilities to adapt themselves to the peculiarities of their clients. So the mere fact that you have exclude yourself from the danger of a bad experience implies to me that you wouldn’t know how to deal with a less than ideal situation. You are used to being catered to by an escort who is exceptional in any case, but has also learned you better than you could ever expect. “I’m sorry is something wrong?” is a very good question to ask of the women in your life, whether you pay them or not. I think that everyone has experienced the chilling effect that advances have had when something isn’t right.

    Hey, I learned something in this thread. You should act “like a gentlemen for some providers to increase your mileage”. ??? I thought that was a given but perhaps that can shed some light the point in this thread about where the anger may be coming from. You expect the service because you paid your money. As Littleguy has said elsewhere, and you pointed out recently, you’re/he’s going to cum in an escorts mouth if she hasn’t explicitly said not to. Well, let’s face it you said come spend a day with me at my shore house. And you got that. You also got hosed. You were out of your class when you thought that she could be bent to your will by money. Any working provider has had sex with more people under any and all conditions than even the most experienced “hobby-goer”. I am certain that if she were really evil or a rip-of artist she would apologize to you, set up another date and hoses you again. And you would fall for it, because what get you hard faster than a desperate woman that needs your help Phantom? I’m sure you would have been seeing that hobby-odometer turnover with all the extra miles you would have been envisioning.

    I also think that it’s special when you can have as friend after spending multiple 24 hr bookings for years. Personally, if I don’t think of her as a friend after meeting one I won’t see her. So we have come to a bit of an inconsistency. 24-hour dates imply, indeed necessitate, that development of the personal relationship. So the fact that just one of these has become your special friend is should be computed in a new average such as 1 for 12. So you must admit that you choose primarily for the service provided and care minimally for the how the provider feels about you. If an escort doesn’t tell me I’m full of shit at least once the first meeting, well…

    This isn’t some super GFE I am talking about. All I ask for is for the other person to act like herself so I can be myself. As a matter of fact, the women I see none of them are favorites on any boards. No, this isn’t the dreaded “unobtanium” any of you can be with them for the money (remember that’s the point). It’s because some people have become so enamored of the internet and the information posted in reviews and via email that they want nothing to risk. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. There are many more gems out there that exist unharvested but for the lack of adventure and innate empathy for the escort. Ok, not everyone wants to work that hard for their thrills. The ones that score everytime on the visceral physical sex are easy to find.

    Money also shouldn't be a factor in this case because for a guy that spent 20k in one for the most expensive night, it's a drop in the bucket (only for the best of course). Couple that with the fact that the escort normal going rate is 4$ or 12$ and it does not seem that generous. I still believe that Phantom chose her because he thought she was vulnerable and needed the money and would provide that extra special service.

    “Maybe sub-consciously it was a gift.” Too funny, you don’t even know how big of an ass you sound like. And if there is any karma you will find out.

    J’s age was one of the things you mentioned as a factor for choosing her. No doubt she is a looker, but she isn’t that great. One of the things that almost always make clients choose a younger provider is the hope that will not have been ruined by the business. How many times was that said in JAG about numerous young women. You know, get some while there is still something worthwhile to get. A younger provider is also naïve about the business this is also a plus for many clients. You have 30+years on her backed by the power of the Internet, you’re a sure winner. And you mean to tell me that J is the only one that does the things you like.

    If she would have provided you with your basic (mindblowing, after all she is auditioning for the big leagues here) physical service you wouldn’t have cared if she was detached and never have posted this. How bad/good did her service need to be? Bad for the pantheon of 12 providers? Or not up to your lofty standards? Maybe she f-ed your brains out but she just doesn’t measure up.

    I am not defending what J did. As a matter of fact whether or not I am defending her really doesn’t matter does it? She probably doesn’t want to read it and I’m not doing it for “mileage”. I don't want her to do anything other than what she has been doing when I see her. And any new customers would have to be a hearty soul after all the negative stuff posted about her. Think about it. The more she gets trashed online the more valuable a customer I become. The princess has never wanted to be rescued. Period. I am hardly a knight in shining armor. Fuck, I pay for sex how cool is that?

    I question your motives and actions in choosing her. Be honest and admit it. Of course you ignored history. You did it for exactly the reasons I said, you saw her as pliable to your money and inside info.

    Actually, I do give J ringing endorsements. But, your mileage may vary. Haha. But perhaps the ferocity of a good experience and the horror of a bad one are most likely symptomatic of her dislike of us. She really is a transparent person. Good or bad.

    Anyway, thanks for the valuable information warning us away from J. And thanks for keeping all your mind-blowing escorts to yourself. Because what really counts is that you are able to tell us about it anyway. All in the spirit of the hobby and ego.

    And Phantom, as the most vocal advocate of the formation of the NJ board, you really should be telling us more than war stories. Release some of your knowledge.

    I forgot. You don’t have any. You hobby rarely outside the pantheon by your own admission and all the special ones are retired. Any other information you have is heresay, which as we all know passes for the truth online (re: Carl/Beth).

    By the way, besides breaking all the commandments (including the OP which precipitated SB going up the mountain to receive them) Beth posted first hand knowledge. Never practice thread deletion. For J or anybody else. The only way people will stop posting out-of-bounds topics will be if it is too painful to go over it. And for what it’s worth, this board wants information freedom, just look at the activity.

    Feel free to comment on me or my agenda. I am not the most introspective person and I would welcome some insight. I won’t take it as an attack.
  6. wsb

    wsb

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    I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but the reasons aren't obvious to me. Please enlighten.

    --WSB
  7. wsb

    wsb

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    523
    Wow, I just skimmed some of this thread. Has anyone counted how many commandments were broken???

    Seriously, even though I am a freedom of expression nut, I think Beth's post should be deleted and she should be banned from the board. Is it just me or is there a trend developing here on UG with LI providers going apesh*t???

    Even though I don't care for very many of his posts, I hope CarlM continues to post and doesn't let this bother him. I dislike seeing this sort of thing happen to any john or provider. I suppose it does provide further support for not giving private info to providers (oh, and rent a car next time).

    I definitely hope that JC continues to post. UG would be far less interesting without him.

    Peace,

    WSB
  8. littleguy

    littleguy Gold

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    2,004
  9. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    2,000
    Ozzy - I was just making an observation. I'm well aware of what went on in JAG and your reasons. I was a fringe commentator on this issue on JAG at the time (though obviously under a different handle).

    [Edited by SkellyChamp on 07-25-2001 at 08:26 PM]
  10. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    skelly...

    the reason for the "J" is pretty simple and it's been brought up before. some people who i guess haven't been on jag mentioned her name and it got out here on UG. i try to not mention her name for what sould be obvious reasons. sometimes even i slip up.
  11. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    SB,
    I can barely add much less do %
    HP
  12. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    2,190
    Phantom,check your anon. email
    HP
  13. Phantom

    Phantom

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    2,806
    Over the past 5 years I've seen 13 different escorts for 24 hours or longer dates were I have never seen them before for a shorter time. 12 great experiences, 1 bad one. Since I tend to become a regular of one or two different women, only with the best of the 12 I became a regular with. 6 absolutely incredible women. Any one of which if I had to choose just one it would be very, very difficult, but I'd be completely satisfied with any one of those 6.

    Maybe that's why the date with J was the bad one, it was the 13th.

    [Edited by Phantom on 07-25-2001 at 03:32 PM]
  14. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    Didn't he say it was 12 out of 13 ??????
  15. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    .923!!!!

    Thats Hall of Fame( more on this in the future) numbers. Just curious , how did you arrive at that figure?:)
    ever curious HP
  16. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    "Slinky is right"

    Note to providers: this is Slinkybender's idea of foreplay.
  17. SkellyChamp

    SkellyChamp

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    2,000
    Slinky

    Here here to your two prior posts.

    It is very clear, at least to me, that JC's views (many of which I have stated I do share tho perhaps not to his extreme or would espouse in the manner he does) while posited as "generalizations" are clearly expressed as being his own. He has not sought to impose them on anyone but merely give expression to them here (and on JAG under his other guise) where they should and could at least be heard if not understand to whatever degree. His right to "unburden" himself should be encouraged not discouraged.

    As for Phantom, he clearly indicated up front that he would disclose who he was talking about. I don't think the fact that he didn't disclose it was Janelle (notwithstanding everyones apparent knowledge of her unstable nature - and isn't it interesting that everyone tends to refer to her as J rather than just saying her name - seems to me to be a residual effect from the positngs on JAG earlier this year) was necessarily germane to what he was asking as a general principle. Obviously, given her "problems" Phantom bore a greater risk of something not going right and that is a risk he should have and possibly did consider. If it did happen then that was his risk and problem. I found his question to be more of a general one and to that extent he got valuable insight and answers. I don't know Phantom from squat and it is quite obvious to me that he and I have polar opposite views of our "hobby" but I saw nothing evil or duplicituous in the way or what he posted here. And Slinky is right, if even one person benefited from the thread I find it worthwhile.
  18. Phantom

    Phantom

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    2,806
    pswope,

    Would it surprise you that based solely on seeing someone for the first time for a 24 hour date (which have been the vast majority of my "dates") and have it be very enjoyable my batting average is .923?

    Thank you for the rest of your thoughful comments.
  19. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    As far as Phantom and this thread:

    Since I can not get inside his head, I will never know his motives. However, if ( and this is a big if ) he never intended to disclose the provider's name, and did so simply because of the demands made to do so in the course of the thread, it is hard to assign malice towards Sara as a motive ( obviously, we will never know the answer to this, barring an admission from him ).

    That notwithstanding, I really don't see what this "story" has to do with much as it pertains to other members. I don't see how it wil change anyone's opinion of her, and as such I find it hard to get excited about the effects on her. Do we think that there were folks who were going to see her right up until the point that they read this, and now will forego seeing her ? I highly doubt that !!!! Was someone else planning on seeing her for 24 hours for $2K who had never seen her before ??? While I highly doubt it, then this "story" is not wasted.

    I guess, to some extent, what it boils down to for me is:

    1) Do we think that Phantom is lying ? If no, then I don't think there is anything so highly inflamatory in his post which makes his having made it "wrong".

    2) Is "Sara" now some "sacred cow" that nothing should even be posted about her ? I personally don't think so. She takes dates, gets booked thru an agency which has her photo on the web, etc.

    3) Is Phantom a total innocent here ? Obviously not, but I don't see him jumping up and down claiming to be one, either ( unless I am missing something ).

    4) I think cautionary tales are one of the reasons to read "the boards". If anyone learned anything fom this, then it was worthwhile. And i hope at least someone ho had thought about booking an extended visit with someone whom they had never seen before did learn something fo this.

    5) Similary, I hope that some will also learn that, as in most "relationships", whatever happened to others will happen to them, and they are being silly when they think, well, I know that happened to him, but I'm different and it won't go that way with me.
  20. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    One note about the Judge's posts:

    More than anyone else on this board ( or just about any other board anywhere ), he has taken the heaping of venomous criticisms about his controversial view without responding in kind, flaming, etc. While he may say things which are both controvesial, and a lot of folks may find offensive, there is little evidnce that most of the statments are geared towards the personl infliction of pain on any particular person. In fact, it seems that every time someone has taken a personal offense at any of his views, even when they were not aimed at that person, Crater has appologised for even that. I wish I could say the same for everyone here ( myself included ).

    If we were to simply ban all unpopular speach, this would become a very boring place very quickly. While i do not agree with a lot of what he says "I defend to the death his right to say it". Freedom of speach isn't about defending the rights of people to say things you agree with.

    Yes, some of the things he says are offensive. yes, a lot of what he says is talking about himself, rather than others; but if that is so obvious, why is is so hard to take ? The only reason to be offended when you know he's talking about himself is if there is some kernal of truth in it for you. When I disagree with him because I think his facts or logic are flawed, I have said so here ( in fact, I think there was one thread where I said so about 4 separate times ). But that's how adults have conversations on issues, not simply by trying to "shout the other side down".

    We all have our "issues" and JC has his. Perhaps Humble Narrator is correct, and he should go on "hiatus", but I also think that is stictly his own decesion. I also don't think there is anything "wrong" with him bouncing these concepts off the folks on this board. perhaps he is simply feeling these concepts out and wants to hear the counter arguments from an intelligent and informed group ( after all, where else is he going to be able to have a conversation with a people who are not going to go into it with the assumption that the whole area is "wrong". Wouldn't that taint any possibilty of having a meanigful discourse, no matter what the real issues were ? ).
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