Shyness

Discussion in 'General Industry Related Topics' started by Jfox987, Mar 1, 2006.

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  1. misterrr

    misterrr

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    57
    It really will help

    Some of your suggestions may also work outside of a club such as a dept. or grocery store, etc. especially the one about the accent. Much appreciated.
  2. un4given

    un4given

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    958

    Nobody is born with "social skills". Even the most outgoing of flirts, had to once learn them by trial and error. My definition of shyness is a psychological state that interferes with the social LEARNING process. In other words, overcoming shyness doesn't give someone knowledge on what to do or how to act. Rather, it provides them an opportunity to learn this information through practice.

    I remember when I was bent on overcoming shyness, about the time (and a little earlier) when I first started posting on this board. I used to frequent a dance club called Izzys, that no longer exists, in the East Village. It had a dance floor and bar upstairs, and cool indy bands playing downstairs. This was a great setup, because after a few rejections or so, i could go downstairs, nurse a beer, and reward myself with some great music. I viewed the entire scene as proving grounds for myself. I sometimes enrolled the help of friends (who werent TOO outgoing, because I didnt want to be bummed out by their successes) -- but basically we would approach girls and tried to talk to them. I admit, on more than one occasion, I would confidently walk up to one, and as she looked at me, I would just open my mouth with no words coming out. And I cant count the number of times I would come up to one and immediately run back before she noticed. And finally when I did talk, I had no idea what to say to them!

    The easiest, and least successful maneuvre for me was asking them to dance. Either asking them to dance, or nonchalantly dancing behind them until they noticed proved to be the worst possible strategy. I've had them literally stop dancing, look at me with disdain, and move to the other side of the floor. Again, these experiences were very helpful, because they taught me that the worst of it, isnt so bad.

    The strategy that finally payed off was that of "personality analysis". I would choose a girl to approach not based on any physical characteristics, but based upon how much i could read into her before we even spoke. For instance, if the girl speaks with an accent, "What a lovely accent, where are you from?" was innocent enough and didnt sound like a pick up line. But it was a large enough topic to continue conversation around it, until new details came up that i could ask her about. Of course it was still 50:50 -- if she was clearly not into me, she would face away from me a lot, keep her legs pointed in a different direction. This would be my cue to say "see ya later cutie". Especially the cutie part is difficult to say, but since I knew that it wouldnt work with her anyway, I used the opportunity for practice.

    Anyway, the idea is to know something about a girl before you talk to her. If you can ascertain with relative certainty something about her interest, or background, or what have you -- bringing that up works better than any pick up lines. This tells a girl that you've analyzed her on a non-shallow level, and you actually care about what SHE is about, not just the attractive look.

    So this is in terms of "what to do or say". One last thing I can say that really helped me: you know how people tell you to "just be yourself" when you talk to someone? I do the exact opposite. DONT BE YOURSELF! Be whoever SHE wants you to be. Lie through your teeth -- "yea, i love that band too! whats your favorite song by them? Oh shit mine too!". This serves 2 purposes: first, to increase your chances of scoring, and second, if you ARE rejected, it wasn't YOU that got rejected, but the persona that you chose with her. If you use the same persona with many women, and it doesnt work, try changing it. But the idea is to never use your actual persona - because you are partial to who you actually are. Now what happens if you get caught in a lie? Well thats a funny situation, and can make her laugh. Just say, with a serious face, "Well, actually, i've never heard of this band, i just said that so you would like me more"! This will totally work if she fell for your lie before, because she is there for the same reason you are -- to hook up, not to chit chat about bands. And this shows her that your intent is real, and you are creative enough to come up with ways to accomplish the mission. This can also get you slapped, but once-slapped-no-longer-shy is definitely a true statement!

    I dont know if my experience really helps anyone here, but i figured id put it out there. When I was figuring this shit out on my own, I really wished someone would give me details on what they do. This way i could modify it to fit my style. So maybe this will help someone..
  3. genius

    genius

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    7,352
    You can't change the past, most behavior mod guys won't even let you bring it up as they want to help you change what can be changed and not what cant. Ten years of therapy, IMHO, borders on either incompetence or a shrink just milking it, IMHO.

    Ten months in behavior modification (or its variants) would be a very long treatment - 10 to 14 weeks is more like it for stuff like shyness.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2006
  4. Bandaid

    Bandaid

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    2,140
    un4given,
    I'm with you. The "just fight" thing is a variation on the "pull up you socks, you've got shit in your shoes" attitude. The people who can do that have generally done it. The "just do it" thing is simplistic and just a brush-off to people with the problem.

    Shy people lack social skills. We missed out on a lot of stuff. I could fight it all damn day and I wouldn't have any idea what to say or how to act.

    Shy people have self-defeating thought patterns that need changed. People, once they know how, can use their intelligence to get a handle on their emotions and behavior.
  5. genius

    genius

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    7,352
    The thread was titled "Shyness".
    Maybe if there was another thread called "timidness".
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2006
  6. un4given

    un4given

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    958
    I, personally, don't believe the way to get rid of shyness is to "fight giving into it". In fact, I would challenge anyone to do the opposite -- give into it fully, as you violate what it dictates you. Tell yourself "now I will feel more horrible, than I've ever had in my entire life". Prepare to be rejected for being unable to hide your shyness. Prep yourself "holy shit, this will be SO BAD". And then, just as you worked yourself up like you are about to take it up the ass on national television, go ahead and DO what you don't want to do. Guess what? You've just made it way worse than it could ever be, and still survived. Now its not as bad any more. Imagine if you did this without all the damaging, anxiety-raising prepwork.

    This approach isn't for everyone, but I think it has some merit. I think the "fighting shyness" approach can be faulty, because it only makes sense if you overcome it, and it leads to success right away. Like a Hollywood movie, when the protagonist eats those peanuts off the ground and the girl's heart melts and she falls for him immediately. But in reality, overcoming shyness only INCREASES your chances of success, and the effect comes with practice, and is not immediate. So for me, its easier to expect the worst. I never expect success, when I feel shy, I want to EXPECT the disappointment. But I do it anyway, because it asserts the fact that I dont give a shit what happens. And that kind of attitude allows change, because you are already making it as bad as it can get. And acknowledging that the worst of scenarios is still not too bad.

    Am I making sense? It makes sense to me... maybe only to me.
  7. un4given

    un4given

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    958
    "rejects from some fortune cookie factory in Flushing" - this HAS to be an example of a NON-cliche, had me laughing out loud!!
  8. Mr. Wet Wooly

    Mr. Wet Wooly

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    1,984
    No; no one has brought up physical abuse, but a few have mentioned traumatic childhood experiences.

    I used to drink and drug a lot also to cope with anxiety. I found it only made things worse -- even less bearable.
  9. sunraider7

    sunraider7

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    284
    Great thread, but I've yet to read (or maybe I just overlooked it) anyone mentioning that their shyness was/is a result of childhood physical abuse. I started getting smacked around really good by my mom when I was eight or nine years old. It wasn't long afterwards that I developed a serious case of anxiety. By time I was a teenager, I was drinking and smoking dope to deal with my inadequacies (and believe me, I had plenty of them). I was even scared to jack off . I have had two or three straight relationships, but my "people skills" aren't worth a damn. Thank God for providers, because without them I'd go completely mad. BTW, I've been in therapy for the last ten years.
  10. justlooking

    justlooking

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    25,481
    I mean, by your logic, if someone (like say me) were seriously overweight, and someone else recommended they modify their diet and get more exercise, you'd say, "Oh no, they might have some physical or mental condition that forces them to be obese. Don't recommend that they do anything to help their condition; it's insensitive."
  11. justlooking

    justlooking

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    25,481
    There's a difference between psychological conditions and timidity. If someone is pathologically shy (if there is such a thing), then of course my "approach" won't work. But I'm assuming this is someone who's just timid, not sick. And I don't think you're doing him any favors by implying that he can't overcome that if he works at it.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2006
  12. genius

    genius

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    7,352
    I imagine that yours is an interesting approach to to a lot of problems that people have. I bet it will also work for anorexics, alcoholics, claustrophobics, posttraumatic stress disorder "or any other stupid fear that you don't want to have".

    Some people (I have heard) can be so distraught from "stupid fear" that they do not want to have but don't havre the tools to rectify, that they blow their brains out. And the shame of it all is all they had to do " is just to fight giving into it".

    There are people who have the tools and techniques to help people with irrational behaviors and fears. And also helpful sometimes are others who have overcome some problem and share their own person method with the thought of helping others overcome the same problem.
  13. cindyq11

    cindyq11

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    118
    Now, speaking from a girl's point of view, especially, an ex-provider's point of view, one in my position has to get over it real quick.
    Stayed "home" with two lesbians. Then one day, got tired of starving all the time. Yeah, there was food. But never was enough.
    So, did the next best thing. Walked straight out the door. Yeah, right straight out. Did they miss me? I have no idea. Maybe they did, maybe not.
    To them it was one less mouth to feed.
    Did what they did. Street husle. Only thing I knew what to do.
    Dd that for a couple of years.
    Got enough for a bus ticket and went out to Nevada. Tried to make a go of it there.
    Damn, you think there is any money out in Nevada?
    If you do, I will give you a freebie.
    No, went to LA, did some porn. more porn. and that is where I began making some good money. Saved it, saved it. Leaned secretarial skills. learned to type. Got GED. Went furhter and higher.

    yeah, now, here I am. Still a shy little girl at heart. Yeah, I'm a push over.
    Once bitten, twice shy.
    Yeah, baby, beneath, all this nice finesse, still lies a fist of solid iron.
    Yeah, and that is how I got over my shyness. Caveche?
  14. milkman

    milkman

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    387
    i keep hearing about shyness coming from a fear of failure. what about shyness coming from a fear of success.
  15. justlooking

    justlooking

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    25,481
    I haven't read this thread at all, but the best way to overcome shyness is just to fight giving into it. After a while of that, you won't feel it anymore. It's just like fear of public speaking, or heights, or diving, or any other stupid fear that you don't want to have.
  16. Mr. Wet Wooly

    Mr. Wet Wooly

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    1,984

    I knew you were making a good faith effort, and that's why I thought you deserved a good explanation of why I reacted the way I did.

    Look man, it was just my opinion (and I guess that Troutperson's), not necessarily anyone else's.

    I'm the first to admit I don't have any insight and I couldn't enlighten a fly about social anxiety disorder. I've struggled with it since puberty.
  17. mcduck

    mcduck

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    116
    Jfox987: Yeah, comics and (especially) sci fi/fantasy are tough sells, but a lot of hot, athletic women are totally fascinated by boxing. Stop by Gleason's gym on Front St. in Brooklyn sometime. Women's boxing is the hottest thing going.
  18. bushleaguer

    bushleaguer The CDC

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    684
    Jesus Christ, not only is it bad enough that a post with good intentions is dissected like you're back in 11th grade English Class, but someone needs to take exception to an effort to contribute in a positive way because "an argument wasn't articulated" up to standards. You've got to be kidding me - this is a whore board, not the American Anxiety Association.

    Well, enlighten everyone with your insight, Mr. WW.

    I need to thank you, though. I just realized that I wasted over 500 moments in my life here. I'm done.
  19. Mr. Wet Wooly

    Mr. Wet Wooly

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    1,984
    This is wrong, but he get points for creativity and originality. Have to admit I chuckled.

    I've been known to overdo it with sarcastic, one liner knee-jerk reactions too.
  20. Mr. Wet Wooly

    Mr. Wet Wooly

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    1,984
    Just to be fair, you mentioned in the last paragraph that you would be using a single cliche -- you did this after gagging me with a string of silly aphorisms (e.g., 'give yourself the benfit of the doubt', 'be yourself', and 'put your best foot forward', etc.) that all sounded like the rejects from some fortune cookie factory in Flushing.


    I guess that's why I'm taking the time to sort of go after you, although I don't want to seem vindictive and insulting like so many people do on these boards.

    This is the most genuine thread I've ever come across on this board and I think it deserves better than anything that follows "I know it sounds cliche, but..." Look, instead of reducing your idea to an empty cliche, why not do it some justice and articulate an argument instead? This thread deserves it.

    At the very least, please just cut out the smiley face icons for chrissake! Kidding (sort of).

    - Mr. WW