Sorry if this is not pertient to this hobby butt

Discussion in 'New York' started by candie, Jul 1, 2001.

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  1. Wwanderer

    Wwanderer Kids, don't try this at home

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    Not that it matters at all, but

    I would still distinguish the Japanese golf phenomenon from your examples of non-participant sports enthusiasts in the US in the following respect: The typical Japanese golf fanatic is not necessarily an enthusiastic spectator or fan of pro golf. His expensive clubs are not mouldering in the back of some closet because he once thought he might play; in fact they are used frequently...for practise swings! These guys (seem to) think of themselves as golfers. They put huge effort into perfecting a swing...practise, studying videos and even taking lessons from a pro. If asked, they would describe themselves as golfers. The analogy would not be an American who never plays ball but who has a bat and a glove somewhere in the garage. It would be a guy who gets up a couple of hours early 3 days per week in order to practise his hitting and fielding skills but who never plays in an actual game...maybe has never played in one at all.

    It is as though the sport is so inaccessible that the practise has become the sport...or something like that. I can't really explain it rationally.

    This is probably the weirdest topic I have ever "debated" on the net, and that sir, is no mean feat!

    -Ww
  2. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    Or for that matter, even our "National Passtime". How many people actually play baseball ( or Softball ) any more often than Japanese golf ????? ( personally, I usually play in two games a week between March and October ).
  3. robnotbob

    robnotbob

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    Guilty as charged...

    ..on ALL counts!
  4. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    My point was that you really have to search hard to find people in NYC who have played Ice Hockey, but lots of people own sticks, root for Rangers/Devils/Islanders, wear hockey Jerseys, etc.

    And PS, there's LOTS of guys in NYC who drive nice off the tee and can't do anything else because they hit a bucket once or twice a week but only go out on the course once a year at the company outting. If you ever want to find any of these guys it's simple. Just ask me the next time I'm shooting a round, show up, and there will be four of them in front of me.
  5. Wwanderer

    Wwanderer Kids, don't try this at home

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    Golf and hockey around the world

    Almost no one owns a hockey stick in Tokyo but maybe half the adult male population owns an expensive set of golf clubs.

    I wonder what the hell we are talking about!? ;-)

    -Ww
  6. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    and the number on NY'rs who play golf is similar to the number who own golf clubs.
  7. justme

    justme <i>pop and click tainted</i> Vinyl ( is dead )

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    I'm fairly certain that the number of NY's who play hockey is similar to the number who own hockey sticks.
  8. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    sky rink on w33st, played there on friday nights from 85-87.
  9. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    "even though most of them never, or nearly never, get to play the damn game!"

    How many NY'ers have played ice hockey ?????
  10. Wwanderer

    Wwanderer Kids, don't try this at home

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    The Paradox of Japanese Golf

    One of the numerous little puzzles that makes Japan so fascinating (to some of us) is that golf is one of the most popular hobbies among middle class Japanese men even though most of them never, or nearly never, get to play the damn game! This does not prevent them from spending endless hours practising their swings, buying expensive sets of clubs, reading golfing publications, talking about it for hours on end and so forth.
    I assume that most or all of them do use those huge multi-tiered driving ranges one sees all over the place, but I am not even sure about that.

    After I had spent my first 6 weeks in Japan, I felt that I had many deep and clever insights into its culture and society; after I had spent 6 months there, my initial impression had past and I was simply sure that I did not have a clue what was really going on.

    -Ww
  11. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

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    I played with a Japanese man once and he was incredible off the tee, 280 straight everytime, but every shot after that was a nightmare, totally clueless. At the end of the round I asked him about it , he responded that the closest most Japanese golfers could get to actually playing were these huge, circular, multi tiered driving facilities( sort of like a footbal stadium) where thousands of golfers could hit balls. This guy had never actually been on a golf course!
    take care HP
  12. HornDogBuddah

    HornDogBuddah

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    I've heard that the initiation fees at some golf clubs are in the low 7 figures (and that's US dollars, not Japanese yen). Annual dues, caddie fees (females usually), buying gifts for everyone if you make a hole in one, tips, etc., are all extra.
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    i'll tell you where Tokyo beats NY...


    you actually will pay more or a dinner in tokyo then you do in NY, and you can't get in a round on golf without a year in advance reservation...it'll also cost you about $500-$750(US $$) for that ONE round.
  14. Wwanderer

    Wwanderer Kids, don't try this at home

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    Tokyo v NYC - 10 providers to 1 at least

    I am not sure this is a suitable topic for this forum, but anyway here are a few points:

    - Different New Yorkers will claim it is unique and special for different reasons. You mention wealth, but others would say its cultural assets, others its cosmopolitan diversity, others its size or crowdedness, others its utterly urban atmosphere and sensibilities...basically many of the sorts of things that the list Candie posted pokes fun at. I would say that no one quality can make one city be THE CITY. It must be some combination of many things producing an overall gestalt. I have spent time in many of the world's great cities, including NYC, and it is certainly impressive and deserves to be included among them...but not more than that, at least imho. I would say the same of Tokyo, btw; it is not THE CITY either...but few Tokyoites live under the illusion that it is.

    - As for wealth, near the peak of the Japanese bubble economy the paper value of all the real estate in Tokyo (land and buildings) exceeded the value of all of the real estate in the WHOLE UNITED STATES and ALL OF THE STOCK IN ALL OF THE PUBLICALLY TRADED CORPORATIONS (all exchanges) IN THE US. Of course, as you point out, it has crashed far below that level by now, but it is still worth far more than NYC in a pure real estate sense. On paper. For whatever that is worth.
    Paper value of such things is only a semi-meaningful measure I know, but so are most indicators of really vast sums of money...itself a sort of fiction.

    - My post was not all that serious, of course, but what I was really talking about is nothing as objective as the characteristics discussed above but rather about the fun of watching Tokyo gradually overwhelm the preconceptions of one of those "NYC is THE CITY" types. A good start is to ride around the Yamanote line stopping in one area after another that is about as big and impressive as the Times Square area of NYC.

    Finally, trying to get back on topic a little bit, I'll bet the Tokyo adult entertainment industry is at least 10 times bigger than NYC's...probably more, however you would care to measure it. (Of course, most of it is closed to gaijin.)

    -Ww
  15. wsb

    wsb

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    Scary how many of the 40 are applicable to me.

    Wwanderer --

    NYC is "THE CITY" not because it is large or crowded, though it is, it is THE CITY because it is the center of the universe for business and has been for at least the last 100 years. While Tokyo is certainly impressive, it was built upon the pyramid scheme that was the Japanese economy and now that the blinders have come off it is not nearly as impressive as it once was (though still very expensive and crowded). I don't think there is anywhere else on the planet where you will find the concentration of wealth that you find in NYC.

    --WSB
  16. hot4chicks

    hot4chicks

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    ...real NYers don't have cars or black clothes, but otherwise you're close...
  17. beep9

    beep9

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    As a resident of Manhattan and the Home of the Cyclones [?] for 10 years, I still have to object to this. There is only one 'The City' and that's the one where the basketball team used to have 'The City' on the front of their uniforms (Of course, now they play accross the bay, but, hell, New York doesn't even have a football team).
  18. Luciano

    Luciano

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    Shinjuku Station will forever change your mind about what "busy" is.

    The real funny part about the NYC list that is true is the total lack of knowledge about the rest of America. "Well, lets see, I think there's Chicago, and then LA, and then that area where all the Presidents come from...."
  19. Wwanderer

    Wwanderer Kids, don't try this at home

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    Opening the eyes of a New Yorker

    I have twice had the tremendous fun of showing one of those "NYC is THE CITY" types around Tokyo. It is enormously
    entertaining to watch them gradually realize that New York is not the biggest or busiest or most intense/impersonal or most crowded or most densely textured or most expensive or ... metropolis on the planet. Not even close. It doesn't even have the most complicated public transportation system.

    One guy really had trouble handling it; I think he felt that the whole basis of his understanding of the world had been turned on its head.

    -Ww
  20. HornDogBuddah

    HornDogBuddah

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    And where the Great Outdoors is what you have to go through to get from the cab to the restaurant.