Discussion in 'General Industry Related Topics' started by ew, Jul 14, 2001.
you get me in more trouble........
[Edited by Ozzy on 07-17-2001 at 04:53 PM]
Is she http://www.taylorbicutey.com ?
If you look at her rate page maybe that's an explanation for how she feels. But note she seems to imply price not information is the filter.
Funny how the better looking a provider is the more blurry that line of privacy becomes. At any rate, sort of like having unprotected sex with a complete stranger - the odds are probably in your favor that things will work-out OK, but why risk it all for...well, you know how it goes.
I missed the Florida thing. I just figured that if is WERE Taylor Li I wouldn'ty have to waste my breath supporting why *I* would not give my private info since she knows damn well why.
I wonder if she "Taylor" from the Ft Lauderdale area. If so, she's a real cutie pie.
Not that that makes ANY difference about giving out personal info.
Why don't you ask Taylor, rather than Ozzy? Isn't this how problems start?
At any rate, Talor Li is a Philly provider and this particular Taylor mentioned being from Florida, so I think not. Irrespective of who she is, I think it would be better to respond to her argument rather than focus on who she is or may be, though in Taylot Li's case that may be a relevant argument in rebuttal.
i don't think so. but i did talk a bit about her before the other one turned up here last week. everyone has been fore warned about her so caveat emptor.
[Edited by Ozzy on 07-17-2001 at 04:52 PM]
Is this Taylor, Taylor Li ?
If so, anybody that's been around for awhile knows her story and what she has done in the past, no ?
I'll take a Pasadena too, if the lady requires that info AND she's hooked up with TBD.
A thought (rare for me)
Ask Ezrlove how he would have felt with his real info in a TBD database while TBD was accusing him of "drugging and violently raping" a lady. A charge that the lady herself NEVER made, but was simply spun out of whole cloth by the man who wants to gather this information.
Ladies, you have rights and I want you all to be safe always. But the clients have rights, too...they pay the bills. And privacy and discretion are the most crucial of those.
My own rule is: I never give my personal info to any lady who asks for it. And I manage pretty well.
And I will not wind up in any database.
There is not one bit of info that providers can collect to protect themselves if they are not willing to go to the police and to press charges.
Great posts by EW and especially by Wilt.
The info you gather does *NOT* afford any protection to you whatsoever. It is, at best, a form of recourse *AFTER* you have been hardmed, but it usually doesn't even serve that purpose very well. This matter has been discussed at length on this board, so I won't belabor the point.
To echo Wilt's comments, your most desirous propspective clients (i.e., the ones who probably have the most disposable income to spend on you) are probably the ones who have the most to lose by their information being made public. They are exactly the people who will either avoid you if you seek to collect their info or give you fake info in the first place. For these people, discretion is much more important that how much you charge per hour.
In conclusion, there are simply much better methods for protecting yourselves from harmful clients and all of you who have been lulled into a false sense of security by collecting all of this info should really think about that.
if they have no traffic outside, i can guarantee you that they have even less inside. and i've seen whats behind that door at tbd.....and it ain't pretty. thats what happens when you let the nuts run the asylum.
now what went on in here (UG) last week wasn't pretty either, but it was the truth......thats something you will never get over at TBD.
that board has lost every shred of credibility over the last year.
[Edited by Ozzy on 07-16-2001 at 12:31 PM]
Wouldn't there be legal complications resulting from providers posting detailed information relating to their professional activities? Aren't they, in effect, admitting that they perform sexual favors in return for monetary compensation? Especially if the complaint is "he haggled with me over price" or "he failed to pay me altogether"?
It's one thing for clients to post "anonymously" (if that's indeed possible). But most of the providers on TBD have "professional" identities that are well known.
I agree with Candie
Yes, that is basically for bad clients, and it's true most girls can't be bothered writing reviews on clients.
I don not keep any records either for the same reasons as you guys don't, my family and friends would never understand.
Have a great day, Kelly
There is a conflict between the providers' and clients' interest in safety(the respective definitions of safety differing of course). It has also been forcefully argued before that obtaining personal info is not the most effective way for a provider to protect herself.
It might be feasible for the 2 sides to reconcile this conflict if not for the overlay of utter subjectivity with respect to the necessity of use of this information and the fragility of human self-esteem,which leads to the abuse of this info(and provider reviews as well).
To the ladies:
Many clients have reached the same conclusion as ew,that even the most remote chance of a compromise to a client's workplace status or his marriage isn't worth the greatest session of his life and accordingly will not even entertain the thought of seeing an internet escort.
While security from physical harm is certainly the right of every provider,you have to ask yourselves,individually and collectively,if the pendlum hasn't swung too far in your direction. If business is still good,even with the ever increasing group of internet drop-outs it hasn't. But if you're complaining about a slow-down in business,it may not just be the economy or your rates.
Hardly naive. But I would say that the propensity to talk is as strong for some of the brethren...
If I was naive I would believe that escorts don't keep records.
I was just pointing out the effects that it has on the enduser and the provider. A bad client database, while very useful is hardly enough to charge for what used to be given out for free. It needs to be as comprehensive as possible. The last I'll say about that.
The public boards of TBD are dead. What do they get like 20 posts a day? I assume that all the traffic has gone inside, anyone care to verify?
I guess it's UG's ballgame.
Talking amongst themselves is one thing but to put it in writing is a totally different issue and concerns. And I will admite I can be naive at times, but it still doesn't make it more palateable once it comes to light.
I must say a lot of guys around here are unaware of one of the basic aspects of females everywhere: they talk among themselves.
Could it ever be different now that the Internet exists?
Some of the gentleman around here are a little touchy about the subject, and a little naive.
I agree with EW. I'm leaning towards not seeing anyone who uses the TBD machinery either. I cannot justify having a third, non-interested party involved in the gathering of private client info. Also from what I've gathered over these last few months (just by reading posts, not having any direct personal experience), it seems to me that the TBD moderator would put a providers interest well above that of clients in deleting/editing posts.
I have posted only a handful of reviews due to :
1) If I have nothing good to say, I don't say anything at all
2) I'm not active in the hobby as some of you are
3) I'm cheap ..lol
4) Sometimes I just like to keep someone for myself (below rader provider)
Noting all of the above, and even though I'm single and I have less to risk, there is ALWAYS the risk of my work# getting out (I will never ever give it out again) and not to metion the loss of one's income if the hobbying activites were to come to light.
We (hobbyists) pay for a service. We (hobbyists) always have a choice on who we see. My choice in the future is to see either providers already known to me and or under the radar ones. Yes this limits my choices but so be it.
To the few providers I've visited with, I'm sure you'll confirm that I'm not one of those sleezes that you need protection from (the main reason for having the TBD Client Review Boards) so I have nothing to hide when it comes to my manners. But I'll be damned if I'm going to volunteer any more information to new providers so that it may eventually make it's way to "that" board.
Yes I do now know what's it's like to be in YOUR shoes, however we are the demand side (client) you the supplier (provider) and ultimately the client sets the market price and brings about changes in the rules of doing business.
In closing, I wish only good health and safety to all hobbyists and providers alike, even those in disagreement.
While I think that both sides have their points, I would just like to point out a few random thoughts I have:
1) How many escorts have provided copies of their driver's licenses to clients ?
2) Has any provider ever shared personal info from clients when there was no "a very bad situation has happened" situation ?
3) Has anyone's personal info ever been made public on a public forum ? And has it been used to threaten anyone ?
4) Are provider's birth names, Social Security numbers, driver's license numbers, etc. being posted anywhere ( JAG, private boards, etc ). ????
5) Is the information being given "just enough" to dertimine a "match" or are things which should be confidential being widely deseminated ? ( Example: John D****sh, SS # " 12*-**-8**9, NYS driver's license number 420*****-9****-9****9, telephone (914) 64*-1**3. This would abe all someone needed if they were looking to match a "bad client" of someone else's to a new potentail client. As a result, none of this info needs to be fully spelled out in order to "protect" anyone from a bad session. If more than that is being shared, you'd have to wonder why ).
Some things I would like to admonish those who share too much confidential info with others:
a) If you pretend you are keeping info confidential and don't, people tend to get into a bit of an uproar and rect rather harshly,
b) If you disclose that you have no intention of keeping info confidential, you have to worry about the info you get being fake, and
c) When confidential info starts to become public, it becomes very difficult for the situations where you actually need it to collect it. You end up not getting the very info you need for your safety. You also set up a system where it is actually worth while for people to go out and get fake ID's ( something which is quite easy, actully, but it doesn't get done because there is no reason to do so. Once there becomes a reason to do it, it will become very common ).
I have posted previously that I have thought that non-session information is too much. Others feel differently.
Escorts certainly have the right to do what they feel is in their best interest. As I said earlier I assume that all escorts would sign up for this, you'd be dumb not to it's your biz. There is a lot of escort information out there (JAG and UG) and you have do a bit of searching to gather this info. And I'm sure this was a reaction to the old days where you had to pay for each piece of clothing to come off in addition to the upfront fee. This internet dissemination of information is a factor that the escort surely knows is part and parcel of being an escort. Now it seems that it will be a part of the client's factors to consider.
I hope that what I tell escorts stays private. I don't think that it all does but at least they hopefully say "some client". But I accept that it can be transferred to other parties. Surely escorts know that what they are saying could be passed along too. This is a personal judgement that I make about the escort. If I thought that it could ever end up sitting in some database I don't think I would see her.
TBD has always worked in the escorts favor, rightly so as they pay the advertising. Information get deleted rather quickly if it is detrimental to an escort or seems to be an ad-hominen attack (ultra-quick if it is a well known lady or god-forbid an advertiser). It is much harder to remove client info from the open boards. Ask Xerxes about that one. A seemingly nice guy from all indications.
Oh well, I guess if I were to cut out TBD as a source of possible escort leads it would be back to cutting side deals with agency girls. That's not all bad though b/c if the $$$$$$ girls would be willing to go for $$$...I could be onto something.
I got my panties all in a bunch over this. I don't really care because everyone has to make up their own mind.
Separate names with a comma.