The Hamas electoral victory

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by bushleaguer, Jan 28, 2006.

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  1. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    Israel has every right to cross the border and do the damage it's doing.

    Israel is right: The incursion was an Act of War.

    I feel sympathy for innocent civilians on both sides.

    But my sympathy is much less on the Lebanese side because they knowingly and deliberately voted Hezbollah into power.
  2. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    Israel invades Lebanon after Hezbollah crossed the border and kidnapped more Israeli troops.


    Of course the UN condemned Israeli actions.


    Syria's next
  3. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    oddfellow,

    Indeed.
  4. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    It's easier to make deals with Sadaam when you keep things quiet.

    It's easier to funnel billions into the hands of your collaborators when you keep things quiet.
  5. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    The U.N. knows Israel can thumb its nose at the world because its supporters in the U.S. control this county's foreign policy.

    Israel has been ignoring U.N. resolutions for three decades.

    That's why the U.N. has been quiet.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2006
  6. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    In case no one is taking note of what the Israeli's have been up to the last few days..... bombing electrical and water plants, taks and troops poised for an invasion of Gaza and arresting hamas govt leaders and buzzing the president of hamas supporting Syria over this kidnapping and murder of Israeli border troops).....

    Interesting though I haven't heard the UN butting in, guess Bush and Co are keeping them busy elsewhere.

    You heard it here first.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2006
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    I can bet which side of these debates you'll be on.
  8. Justine

    Justine

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    I don't know about all that, but ever since Hamas got elected, every time I see a yarmulke I feel like yelling "Hamas!" Let's be real about this: if neo-colonialism was wrong, and the existence of Israel is due to neo-colonialism (re-drawing of borders with military enforcement), then Israel has no right to exist, certainly not at the expense of the Palestinian people. Fuck Israel! I love Rachel Corrie!
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2006
  9. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    Agreed- The impact on our planet in the near future is going to be huge. Seems like nature always has a way to balance things out though. Unfortuntately, natures way of balancing things is usually pretty ugly (war, pandemics, etc). We should be in for an interesting ride. Hope you all bought your tickets.
  10. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    Had not heard that expression before. Well, back to Hamas. My belief is that most people are so compulsive that they will turn anything they support into an obsession. When I see people becoming irrational about their obsession, I personally see that as religion .......... But I've said it enough, so done.....
  11. Rokin

    Rokin

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    Chuckie
    Bingo.
    This is the problem. AS China and India's middle class rises, the result to the world's resources will be huge. They have 2 billion between them and we have 300 million in total. If they reach a 30% middle class level buying all the stuff our middle class buys that equates to 600 mllion, twice the entire size of our population. There is only so much natural resources and energy.
  12. ChuckUFarlie

    ChuckUFarlie

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    I understand what you are saying. Sure this amount can be sustained right now but the Earths resources are not infinite. What also concerns me is the industrialization of a lot of these parts of the world. Imagine the people in India and China using as much of the planet's resources, creating the same amount of garbage and pollution per capita as Americans. I see potential for some serious problems.
  13. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    Odd-

    Odd-I don't worship reason. I do believe in using the powers given to me, including my brain, to understand the world I live in. There is a big difference between the two.

    You say the whole environmental issue being manipulate somewhat by the powers that be when it suits their purpose. Of course it is . Just like every other thing in this world is manipulated by those who are trying to benefit from it. That does not nullify the entire arguement that protecing the environment is important. That is what I meant by now throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Just because an issue is manipulated does not negate the importance of the actual issue.

    You indicated that you did not think that humans were capable of affecting the environment except in the extreme example of a nuclear war, and that the entire thing was a religious arguement. That is simply not true. And this is where I chose to debate you on this topic. If you agree that humans can affect their environment either for good or for bad, then we don't need to continue discussing this.

    As for science not addressing moral or purpose of life issues, that is in the realm of philosophy, not science. Don't look at a bear and wonder why it is not an owl. Of course science is limited, but I'm sure that you enjoy the benefits of it every day, being a modern American and all, logging on to the internet as you do. You can thank a scientist for that.
  14. jras

    jras

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    Pass that spliff, bro
  15. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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  16. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    And you are missing the small picture. I have already stated that I think cars and factories pollute. So I'm not throwing the baby ouf with the bath water. But I know people. And when you are trying to promote ANYTING, one of the best ways to do it is to create an intangible and engage people on an emotional level. And I am not saying that it isn't a good thing to protect the planet. But I have pesonally been manipulated by religious, scientific, mental health and academic folks and its pretty much all the same. From the syndromes of the mental health community to global warming to the glories of "reason" and the separation clause to the "I think you're special" I get from my sex worker, everyone takes a few facts and adds layers of threat, need and impending doom or magnificent potential fulfillment and tried to get your buy in...

    And frankly, secularism is enebriated with its own verbosity. Science is over-rated and emotionally attached to the "REASON OF MAN" as its brand. It does not have answers for a lot of moral and "purpose of life" issues that people really care about.

    I have personally seen miracles that convince me that the supernatural exists and I have seen the same folks who were vehicles for those miracles be the worst bastards I can imagine. God moves in mysterious ways.

    So, you worship reason. Fine with me. I don't trust anyone or any dogma, yet I believe God exists. Can't prove it. Don't need to. Don't expect you to.
  17. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    Is that a freebie, or pay for play??
  18. its_mousey

    its_mousey

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    Overpopulation only becomes a problem when you don't have the resources to sustain them. Japan, in terms of pure population density, is clearly overpopulated. However, we don't think of Japan when we think of other overcrowded countries like China or India. That's because Japan has more than enough resources to sustain its population (which has begun to taper off).

    As for China, yes, there are billions of "Chinamin" [sic], but it has been more or less able to sustain such a population through various means including agressive family planning (voluntary and "forced"), education, tax incentives, and rapidly growing middle class (which tends to postpone childbearing at a later age).

    Furthermore, the countries you have mentioned have extremely high infant/child mortality rates as well. Also, these countries still have very big agrarian sectors which, as you know, is a very labor-intensive endeavour which requires many people (i.e., kids).

    Moreoever, it is undisputed that there is more than enough resources (by way of food and water) to feed the hungry worldwide. It is distributing these resources that is the problem.

    So, trying to tell them to fuck less (or fuck safely, i.e., covered) may help in the short run, but it won't eliminate overpopulation since it requires addressing many underlying social/political/economical issues that demand long term solutions.

    Here's a stop-gap solution: maybe they can re-distribute some of those excess females over here.

    Result:
    - decrease in hobby prices;
    - decrease in 3rd World overpopulation;
    - increase in hobby choices; and (most importantly)
    - increase in mousey's happiness! :)

    Dang, fuck Koffee Anan, I should be the UN Secretary!!!

    *Squeak!*
  19. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    Odd-

    You are missing the big picture here. There is scientific evidence that backs-up the belief that there are consequences to polluting the planet. I'm not saying that the enviromental issues have not been manipulated by politicians. However, that does not negate the entire arguement. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

    There is no scientific evidence regarding the existence of a supreme being. There is no evidence disproving it either. That is the difference between science and religion. Facts to back up a hypothesis are scientific.

    Progress, science, and knowledge develop in baby steps. Noone understands the big picture going in. If we waited to understand everything 100% before proceeding, formulating ideas, etc, we'd still be stuck in the stone age, or worse....we would not exist as a species because we were too stupid to derive logical conclusions from limited information.

    Do you think that when it was realized that rats were responsible for spreading the plague anyone at that time understood how exactly it happened? Of course not. However, they saw enough to realize that the spread of the disease could be prevented by implenting better sanitation codes, etc. Would you say that was a religious act?
  20. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

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    All humans rely on emotional assumptions to make decisions. A few facts and an emotional attachement to a point of view is what drives lines of thought. One's attitude toward global warming or salvation of the soul has a lot more to do with the emotional assumption thah the facts of the situation. I call it religious, because it requires "faith" or an attachment to the emotional assumption.

    Marketing, Political and Religious folks ALL try to take advantage of this phenomenon. If they can get you to buy into the underlying assumption and believe, they have you. So, it is fairly obvious that cars pollute. We can see the pollution. But in order to get people to vote on your side, you need to continue generating a sense of crisis, so we have gone from the obvious pollution of autos and factories to getting congress to ban things that are far less likely to hurt anything.

    You put a lot of credence in Science (your assumption) and facts. But people of religious faith have also seen phenomenological evidence of their assumptions. Many people who convert, change behaviors and become better people. So they also believe in their system of thought.

    I see all of it as religion because we don't have the time or brain power to really understand everything, so we learn and a little and buy in. The rest is faith. Much of the information gathering we do is done AFTER we buy in and in order to reinforce our assumptions.