The recent dustup with Vera

Discussion in 'New York' started by Seattle_John, Apr 28, 2001.

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  1. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

    Pswope has it right. Let's drop all mention of the victim. Her life can only return to normal when all reference to this sordid affair ends.

    Ozzy: I hope my post was clear. ***'s slander was pernicious and libelous. He should be punished to the extreme for his vitriol. I was not, in any way, defending what he did. I merely pointed out that attacking his character, his profession, his net worth, his involvement in the hobby, etc., is unwarranted. Let's stick to the issue. He maligned a well respected provider, with seemingly no proof. We should condemn him for his actions, but not for his life.
  2. mowogman


    One question... who's Vera ?
  3. pswope

    pswope One out of three

    While it is noble to endeavor to correct the wrongs perpetrated on VL,as long as this discussion is person specific as opposed to an abstract discussion of principles,you are perpetuating the damage done to the person as opposed to letting it die.

    The very nature of these boards precludes a final objective determination of the truth. The more people post about it,the more doubters will have fodder to consider.
    The attention span in this space is the equivalent of a Ritilin taking teen. If you want to help this woman,let it go.
  4. Seattle_John


    forgot this ...

    Vera is frail. Frailty is not contagious, however.

    Vera does not drink to excess, and she has never ordered a drink when I have taken her to dinner. I think she would have a drink with you, but never let herself get tipsy. She likes the fact I don't drink.

    Vera smokes about 2 packs a day.

    I've been with Vera for days at a time. At no time did she display any symptoms of drug use. Her mind was always acute, her eyes clear, and her mannerisms neither 'hyped up' nor sluggish.

    So I don't think she has a drug problem.

  5. Seattle_John


    Re: Re: The recent dustup with Vera and ***

    As I mentioned before, nobody mentioned his personal kinks.

    The comments regarding his financial position and how he spends his time addressed his motivation.

    There is no validity to any of the allegations made against Vera (that she has a dread disease, or uses needles dirty or not). I listened to her crying on the phone. I've Never Even had a Wart!

    Vera is under weight, and trying to gain a few pounds. She deals with problems involving current family and an upbringing that wasn't what it should have been.

    She has decided to leave the academic life, but still has an academic project to finish. She is still trying to decide what to do with her life from here. That causes some mood swings.

    And she is too impossibly brilliant to be happy all the time. More precisely, VERA is always happy. If you book Vera the provider, you get the whole 9 yards. Pretty, winsome, cheerful, excited, etc.

    But the person I know has to 'come down' from that. She helped me through Plato's Republic. We spend a lot of our time together talking about interesting books. The books aren't always cheerful.

    Finally, I've never tried to hide my attachment to Vera or my lack of complete objectivity. But I wouldn't lie about her on this forum.

  6. Seattle_John


    No one did.

    No one did that. The assertion was that he was afraid they might, which formed a possible motivation.
  7. Ozzy


    He is as entitled to his views on this board as the hobbyist who can afford to indulge in the hobby every night.

    jmc....he is entitled to his views and opinions but not slander or false accusations.

    but no one should be pointing fingers at his fetishes.
  8. wsb


    JMC --

    Great post!

    Hmmmmm, I don't recall suggesting that professional athletes were noble either. I'm sure that there are athletes that I would classify as "noble", but it would probably be for reasons other that what that person does on the playing field.

    Having recently watched 61* and since as I've gotten older I've become increasingly saddened by the state of our free-agency riddled national pass time, I can't help but think that Roger Marris would be a good example of the foregoing.


  9. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

    WSB: I agree completely that bringing ***'s personal life and predilictions into a general discussion is totally unwarranted. Whether he sees a provider every night, once a week, once a year or less, should be irrelevant. He is as entitled to his views on this board as the hobbyist who can afford to indulge in the hobby every night. It is not our place to castigate anyone based on the frequency of their participation or the insights that they draw from that involvement. Moreover, criticizing fellow hobbyists for their relative financial worth, their employment, expenditure on the hobby, and general world view, seems a futile exercise. It is not surprising, given the current presidential adminstration, but it should have no place on these boards.

    Whatever *** did to incur everyone's wrath deserves punishment. He appears to have made allegations against a reputable provider, seemingly without real evidence. He should be admonished for that transgression. But he should not be subject to personal attacks about his level of involvement in the hobby, his occupation, his bank account, or his sanity. He is, admittedly, always involved in our discourse, controversially. Accordingly, he angers and upsets other participants, myself included at times. When he is wrong, he should be corrected. If his error is egregious, he should be punished. But defaming him personally has no merit.

    Lastly, I am not certain that prostitution is not "a noble profession". Professional athletes sell their bodies to their teams and their fans. They possess physical skills also. Apart from legalities, is there a real difference? If there is, who makes you feel better, your favorite team, or your favorite provider? It is just a thought, admittedly written in yet another press box. LOL
  10. wsb


    Re: The recent dustup with Vera and ***

    Seattle John --

    Notwithstanding your obvious bias toward Vera, I appreciate your attempt to shed some light on this confusing and disturbing situation.

    I agree with much of your post, but I can't help but take issue with the point you attempt to make that I have quoted above.

    It is without dispute that *** has been bothersome to many board participants, myself included, and certainly deserves to suffer the consequences of any knowingly false or misleading allegations that he has made against others. What I do not understand is why in ***'s case that has to involve derogatory remarks concerning his financial position, his occupation, his personal kinks (who are we to judge someone on this point) or the amount of time he choses to spend on the Internet (I understand that some of these points were raised by others, not yourself, and I am addressing them all in this post in the interest of conserving bandwith). None of this is relevant to the issue at hand and only serves to detract from an otherwise well-reasoned argument.

    Perhaps in the bizarre universe of prostitution discussion boards, he who pays for the most bj's is the winner, but I can't help but feel that the number of commercial sex experiences that one has is nothing that should factor into the establishment of one's credibility or count toward any determination of success (in the *real* world it would be quite the opposite, n'est pas???). Indeed, although I find some of your derogatory remarks concerning *** understandable, in light of your relationship to Vera, I can't help but find the remarks concerning how *** spends his life somewhat silly, since the topic at hand is after all prostitution - not exactly a noble profession even if one purports to be a pseudo-academic.

    In conclusion, some allegations have been made concerning a provider that seem to have gotten lost in all the noise generated by the dispute between *** and EZ. While you have responded to the allegations of needle use, you also go on to state "Vera has some problems, as have we all". Well, what exactly does that mean? Is there any validity to any of the allegations that have been made?

    I think those that suggest that johns aren't entitled to such info are pretty dim. I am not supporting the leveling of spurious allegations, but I do think a provider's health and attitude toward drugs and alcohol (even if such info is provided upon information and belief), among other things, are important considerations when determining whether or not to see a particular provider.

  11. Carl M

    Carl M Hanging by a thread

    This tread started out serious then turned hilarious!!

    Slinky I was thinking the same thing- Lorena Bobitt. Maybe John Wayne Bobett can post here and tell us what really happened! I know Dawn was cringing when she heard Lorena's name mentioned- except for 1 individual that will go nameless LOL!! Wimpy I feel your pain, I think Brother Rogue does too, HELP!!!
  12. fishfry


    Hotpuppy's right

    My evil twin brother wrote that last post. He likes to rant and rave about stuff, especially when he's right. Now that my meds have kicked in I'd be happy to rephrase.

    Drugs and so-called unsafe sex are activities that many people engage in. Why? Mainly because they're fun and feel good.

    I say "so-called" unsafe sex because safety is a range, a continuum of factors and probabilities. If you are a man it's virtually impossible to acquire HIV or hep C from a woman who is blowing you without a condom.

    Even if you are a woman (or man) and you suck someone's cock, there is a sliding scale of risk. Swallowing is riskiest, yet even swallowing sperm is not a good transmission path for HIV. It's better if you don't swallow, better if the guy goesn't come, better if you didn't floss your teeth right before you sucked him.

    And lots of people do drugs. You've heard of "heroin chic," so what makes you think that a $500 upscale blonde hardbody escort doesn't shoot up just to be able to deal with having to fuck half a dozen middle-aged businessmen a week?

    I've known many streetwalkers who were also escorts who also worked in legal brothels. Lots of attorneys and doctors and computer programmers use drugs and engage in unsafe sex.

    So the very safest thing you can do is stay home. The moment you leave the house to go looking for illegal sex, your risk-meter starts ticking. You could get busted, you could get ripped off, you could fall in love. And any time you get naked with another person, you might catch a disease. Most likely a cold.

    Ok we are all adults we know all that.

    So if we want to protect ourselves, we do two things: (1) we acquaint ourselves with the notion of relative risk. So if we get a nice condomless blowjob -- and personally that's the only kind of blowjob I like -- we don't freak out. We know that it's incredibly unlikely to catch something. Alao those of us who are not married can afford to take certain risks that the married guys can't. So every individual determines their own level of tolerable risk.

    Second, wear a condom. You'll feel safe, you'll be safe.

    Now given all that, what's the point of anyone in this community standing on a soapbox and saying "so and so takes drugs, or so and so does it bareback?"

    That doesn't make anybody safer. The cleanest-cut looking people, men and women, could be doing all kinds of things you don't know about.

    So when you rant and rave about somebody's personal habits and choices, you are

    1) being extremely naive about the widespread use of drugs and widespread enjoyment of sexual activities that technically carry some nonzero degree of risk.

    2) engaging in vile name-calling and slander, for no good reason at all.

    So what if somebody shoots dope and sucks bare dick? Or if some guy here does the same (and don't thing guys don't take drugs and suck dick) -- SO WHAT??

    If you wear a condom, you're protected.

    And if you don't, all the name-calling in the world won't help you identify which people have what organisms floating around in their bloodstream.

    Play safe. Make your own informed choices. Take responsibility for what you do. And stop slandering people.
  13. RoosterC74


    Response to the Cajun Princess


    It is good to hear from you. I hope that all is fine with you-keep the butterfly flying princess.
  14. LIDAWN


    no dick cutting please@!!!!

    you guys constantly worry me as i read everyday what you say you silli bunch of guys.. miss your banter.. see you soon DAWN

    some of you i send hugzz
  15. Ozzy


    if & when i find miss right......

    i won't need to hobby.

    trust me.

    but i'll probably never find her...i have too high a standards.

    suck dick like maria or pamEla

    have a personality like shauna

    be sweet and respectful and cook like gabriela

    love sex like brenda

    face and body don't matter too much if she can meet the above requirements.

    but looking like pam anderson or gina gershon would be a big plus.

    oh yeah......she's gotta fully understand that.... I AM ALWAYS RIGHT!

    [Edited by Ozzy on 04-29-2001 at 12:30 PM]
  16. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

    "then i'll just cut off my dick.

    then again, thats what wives are for."

    You're going to marry Lorena Bobbit ????????

    What did Jeffrey Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbit ?

    "You gonna eat that ?".
  17. wimpy



    Like most men when you get married you'll stop. Because of love and committment and all that other bullshit. One day you wakeup and say damn used tofuck so and so and that one and this one. Your wife maybe great in bed but once you entered the hobby it is very hard to completely go cold turkey. The reason, it is just to easy to get sex. One day the wife stops doing the thing you like and you remember that hell this one I used to see licked it, flipped it,tossed it and rubbed it down. Before you know your back to the old haunts again.

    Take it froma man who has been in the hobby, married, divoirced, in the hobby married, still married and still in the hobby.


    [Edited by wimpy on 04-29-2001 at 12:02 PM]
  18. Ozzy


    i gotta agree with FF...

    thats why i do this till i'm married.

    then i'll just cut off my dick.

    then again, thats what wives are for.
  19. Hotpuppy

    Hotpuppy Mr.Butterworth

    What you have to say is valid and important. The manner in which you choose to say it takes away from the power of the message. Lecturing is going to cause one of two things: you will be ignored or people will get angry with you.
    Take care HP
  20. fishfry


    You people are children

    Oooooh, so and so uses drugs. So and so has cooties!

    Wake up folks. Lots of people take drugs, lots of people engage in various types of sexual behavior such as condomless fucking and sucking.

    I can't tell you how many street prostitutes I've known in my life who were also on call for expensive escort services. Call them through the service, pay $300. Pick them up on the street, get a bbbj for $40. Same girl.

    You are very naive if you think that telling stories about other people keeps anyone safe. Telling stories can only harm people.

    If you are afraid of drugs and disease, then stay home and fuck your wife instead of going out whoring.

    And if you do want to fuck prostitutes, and you are terrified of diseases, then wear a condom. Christ, that's been public knowledge since Dr. Koop put out his report, and that was during the Reagan administration.

    For every person (prostitute or client) who you think might be taking drugs or having unsafe sex, there are a hundred who you don't know about who do those things. Yes, prostitutes AND CLIENTS take drugs, have unsafe sex, and lie about it.

    If you are out bumpin' bellies with naked strangers, you should either use protection and/or take responsibility for your level of risk (which is actually very small, statistically speaking).

    Slandering people, even with the best of childish intentions, is just that -- slander. Idle gossip. Bullshit.