This man is an embarrassment to the country

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by justbill_redux, Jul 17, 2006.

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  1. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    Good call back. This thread is a classic.
  2. sallysts

    sallysts

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    This is great to re-read...
  3. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    Amen to your addendum. You are right, education is not in of itself enough.
  4. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    No.

    Not when they've regrouped and are trotting out lies to encourage a war with Iran.

    The U.S. is fabricating a phony case against Iran

    It's the same old, same old from this Bush administration.

    Lie, grossly exaggerate and distort the few facts you have - Repeat a 1,000 times.

    Eventually, the endless repetition and parroting by the administration's weaklings in the media has the desired effect.

    People are so used to hearing it over and over, they start to believe.

    How else do you explain more than a third of the fools in this country who still believe Saddam Hussein had a hand in 9-11?
  5. Rokin

    Rokin

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    I read an excerpt from Bush the First's book that he did not take Iraq because he was told by his advisors that it was a quagmire. I am sure you are right that there were other reaons why he didn't do it.
    Unfortunately, junior couldn't figure anything out.
  6. lamont5123

    lamont5123

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    Not, really.

    The reason George Bush the First could not invade Iraq is because the Nov. 1990 U.N. Resolution did not authorize it.

    But the real underlying reason Bush the First didn't invade Iraq is that everyone realized that in the first hours after Allied forces began driving up the highway towards Baghdad, every Arab nation that was part of that 1991 coalition would immediately withdraw.

    And this would have caused a public relations embarrassment and a huge political nightmare for the U.S.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2006
  7. justbill_redux

    justbill_redux King Missile

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    I have to wonder how many people took the time to vote in their respective primaries today, 6 going on in the nation. FWIW I voted for Jonathan Tasini.
  8. Rokin

    Rokin

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    Great posts today Thorn.
    I can only wish that more people would put country, not party, first, and really think about what is happening before it is to late.
    The stakes are higher than ever and I don't want us to lose.
  9. Thorn

    Thorn

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    It was a general statement, pointed at no one specifically.


    Amen to that.

    Though I would add that to be simply educated is not enough. Interest and participation in the process by those educated people is what is required.
  10. Thorn

    Thorn

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    I assume that is a rhetorical question, but just in case it isn't...

    The answer is: Because they can.

    When you have a public company with greater than 60% of the voting stock holders asleep at the switch the board of directors is free to take the company in any direction it chooses.

    I say don't blame the BoD for doing what is in their limited best interests. Blame the "don't give a shit" stock holders for not being interested enough to give a damn about the company anymore.
  11. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    I couldn't agree with you more. Afghanistan is not going nearly as well as it should almost 5 years later. Iraq served as a major distraction to the war on terror, and Afghanistan's opium is still funding terrorists.

    I'm not sure, but I think you read my post out of context. I'm trying to explain to oddfellow how Iraq was not a necessary extension of the war on terror because basically they terrorists would have and are flocking to us in Afghanistan as well. If we didn't go into Iraq, we'd see a much larger increase in activity in Afghanistan (a country that we had to be in anyway) and it would all be a much more focused operation, killing/capturing the AQ types, etc.


    I do not know if this was addressed to me specifically, or was more of a general statement, but I am in full agreement with you. Partisanship is poisoning this countries political system, and gets in the way of actual progress. The same can be said for citizens who "educate" themselves with the bare minimum of information gleaned from the mass media. (As an aside, that is why I think the factual inconsistencies in ABC's "Path to 9/11" were so dangerous, precisely because many of our citizens will take it as gospel truth)

    An educated American public is our only hope.
  12. DaveNJ

    DaveNJ

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    I agree, but it still remains incorrect they had no connection to Afghanistan, which was Sallysts point that I was disputing. Afghanistan had quite a bit to do with 9/11 as we all know.
  13. Thorn

    Thorn

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    Oh but they have...

    Since we are tied up in Iraq and have not left sufficient forces in Afghanistan to do the job they need, and should, be doing there:

    1) The Taliban are back and growing in number.

    2) The government we helped create is on very unsteady ground and could collapse at any time.

    3) The poppy fields are once again at full production, pumping poison into this country, the profits of which support further terrorist actions around the world.

    ==============

    Additionally:

    Some of you who do nothing but parrot a given party's line [be it dem or pub] need to do a little field investigating. I'm no lefty or righty nut job, so you can't come at me that way. I was a card carrying Republican [now independent], active within the party at one time, and a tried and true Constitutionalist. My social politics are moderate with very conservative fiscal leanings.

    I do my homework and this is what I have come to know and believe. It is the product of no party, "I'm a insert party here because my daddy was "group think"", which I am sad to say seems to be a good part of what I read here {I can tell because of the use of buzz words, etc, that it comes right from 30 second sound bites and PR releases feed through standard news outlets}.

    Get outside the box and don't let anyone tell you what you ought to believe. Do some homework beyond what 30 minutes of the evening news or the front page of your daily paper gives you and than work your mind toward conclusions based on what you have learned, not the rhetoric being piped at you from all directions.
  14. Mr. Wet Wooly

    Mr. Wet Wooly

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    Why are we losing thousands of American lives and countless numbers of innocent Iraqi lives over this shit?
  15. Thorn

    Thorn

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    We are:

    1) Creating a diversion for a presidency that, until 9/11, had been assured of only one term in office while...

    2) Making a shit pot full of money for any number of special interest groups but specifically for the military industrialists and big oil.
  16. Thorn

    Thorn

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    7,772

    Since 11 of them were Saudi nationals I think it is a safe bet to assume they had little to do with Afghanistan directly. Indirectly, another story.
  17. Thorn

    Thorn

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    If only that were true.

    Most of the money funding Muslim extremist terrorism in the U.S., Europe and South Western Asia comes out of Saudia Arabia and Iran [and a little from Syria via its banking]. It has little to do with what is going on in Iraq.

    You might be taking out some jihadists, that is true enough, but what is going on over there is being used by the AQ propaganda machine to whip up a whole new generation of potential terrorists. So if it turns out to be a wash we will be lucky.

    From a strictly tactical stand point, the only thing that makes Iraq a winning proposition for the U.S. is to have a working democracy established and the people of Iraq singing its praises of thanks to the U.S. for having helped it come about. That counters any AQ propaganda in the pipeline and wins the hearts and minds of the uneducated under-classes [where most of the true believers willing to blow themselves up come from] of the rest of the ME.

    Unfortunately, I don't see that as an eventual inevitability arising from our current procedures or policies.
  18. Mr. Wet Wooly

    Mr. Wet Wooly

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    I'm afraid Bush's only answer seems to be 'stay the course' (i.e. dump it on the next president in 2 years).
  19. Thorn

    Thorn

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    And it isn't like he didn't get that advice.

    No less than Powell, who ought to know having been there for PGW1, said, "If you break it you own it.", or words to that effect. I don't know how you could get more point blank than that.