Thoughts on the terrorists

Discussion in 'General Industry Related Topics' started by davephx, Sep 16, 2001.

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  1. Ozzy




    you're confusing them with the french.

    but they're a whole other story. we should bomb them again........"accidentally" last time.

    [Edited by ozzy on 09-17-2001 at 06:17 PM]
  2. Carl M

    Carl M Hanging by a thread

  3. robnotbob


    also I'm sure alot of these Islamic nations don't appreciate McDonalds and all the big bad Western culture infilitrating their way of life.
  4. TuckernotSucker


    My $.02

    The Taliban, the entire country of Afghanistan, is as backward as a country could be. People live in caves and squalor especially since the Taliban forces took over a few years ago. The number many, they are well armed (ask Russia).
    Bin Laden is a terrorist seeking refuge from an illiterate military government. The attack was against the US for its support of Israel.
  5. Ozzy


    the press doesn't have a clue......

    which is nothing new.

    why does only the US get bombed then? why not bomb england, canada, japan or any other free democracy? because they don't openly back israel and get in the middle of the peace process.

    the arabs aren't that complicated.......they just hate jews and have been doing a good job at it for a long time. actually they need the west......who else is going to buy their lousy oil?
  6. rogue



    thanks for all the info Dave,it's appreciated-stop by anytime for some more light conversation. LOL!
  7. davephx


    Israel is just one excuse

    According to what I read in the Press those that know the Taliban say their goal is world demonation with Muslims having the world power they use to have but is now threatened by the evil Western immoral leadership.

    Isreal is one key excuse but their desire is to stamp out all other religions which they are directed to do by certain passages in the Koran which they believe is direct from Alah.

    So blaming it just on our support of Isreal is just a small part of the issues they have will the West and its power vs the power they want for Islam.

    Again this is the thoughts of the Taliban, a small cult that does not represent the more liberal thinking and preaching of lover and tolerance of all which is also part of the Koran and is what most Muslims follow, especially those Muslims in the West.

    As I understand it the majority of the Palestinian Muslims while hating the U.S. for its support of Isreal (for which they may have some justification), most are not seeking to domoinate the world, as the Taliban sect is. The Palestinian seem to just want their land and to live in peace.
  8. Eye Won

    Eye Won


    Thanks Ozzy,
    Finally someone who gets it.... As long as we support Israel, this stuff will continue, sad but true.

  9. Ozzy


    i think everyone has it wrong when trying to figure out why the terrorist bomb the US...

    it has nothing to do with equal rights for woman or US policies or wealth or democracy or freedom.....

    THEY HATE JEWS AND WE SUPPORT ISRAEL. it's really that simple. and every arab leader has basically said the if the US didn't support israel, this wouldn't happen. bin laden himself has said this. this is something that has been going on since before the bible was written and goes back over five thousand years. what makes anyone think it will stop now in our life time.
  10. davephx


    Thoughts on the terrorists by Dave in Phoenix,

    I have read two types of responses to the terrorists attacks that bother me since both make no sense at all. 1) Bomb Afghanistan into the Stone Age which is pointless 2) Somehow this was about the big bad U.S. government policies or how somehow its our own fault for not making sure all the world is as rich as we are and all the world values human rights.

    The Taliban backed terrorists have nothing to do with U.S. policies or wealth. There may be rejoicing by some extremists in Palestine since now we feel the terror they have felt for years from Israel. They hate the U.S. for our support of Israel, but the terrorists that hit the U.S. seem to have no direct relation to the Israel situation but rather to the fanatic cult of Taliban.

    The terrorists believe they are going to heaven with special rewards for being martyr because of the U.S. immorality in how we treat women with equal rights, allow women to work, use cosmetics etc. And the immorality of our culture for watching movies, even flying kites. They are in a Holy War to support their perverted psychotic beliefs they think are from God and they must force the World to follow what they think God wants. It is a religious war against Western values and freedoms vs their God's will.

    Follows are 3 articles that might help in our understanding

    1) MARTYRDOM In Islam

    2) Example of Taliban restrictions and punishments which they believe are from God. It is their holy duty to destroy the West and all that believe differently in the name of Allah (God) who supports their perverted religious beliefs over all others.

    3) Very practical knowledgeable view of Tamim Ansary an Afghani-American writer of the issues and painful solutions. As he says, "The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan.  When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."   It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators.  They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats' nest of international thugs holed up in their country."

    I further want to add we must not equate the extreme beliefs of the terrorists supporting and training of the Taliban with other Muslims who follow Islam. Most Muslims are just as upset with the extremist Taliban ideas as we are and it is a terribly inaccurate protrail of most Muslim beliefs. It is terrible that some Americans are striking out against anyone who looks Arab, Muslim business etc. The war is not with Muslims or Islam, but with the Taliban cult which trains and supports terrorists for martyrdom in support of their twisted beliefs. Most Muslums respect all religious beliefs and their basic theme is love not war.
    MARTYRDOM In Islam
    Though most Muslims came to renounce holy war as an honorable pursuit, a characteristic among extremists today is a zeal for fighting "in Allah's way" and attaining martyrdom. The Quran explains that martyrdom in the cause of God is a means to enter paradise.

    Dave notes: Allah is the Islamic name for "God" which is actually the same God that Jews and Christians believe in.

    Three distinct Quranic themes are a powerful and volatile combination: the call to war, the call to martyrdom, and the martyr's reward. Some branches of Islam declared participation in jihad (holy war) to be one of the key requirements for all able-bodied male Muslims.

    Not only does a martyr in the cause of God enter paradise, but he does so automatically--his admission is guaranteed. Further rewards, as reported by hadith, are that the fighter in God's cause will, if killed in the struggle, receive privileges otherwise unattainable. He receives the highest of ranks in paradise, sitting near the throne of God--Muhammad described the "house of martyrs," dar al-shuhada', as the most beautiful abode of paradise. Each hero "martyred" fighting the enemies of God is given 72 brides in heaven.

    Finally, the martyr enacts the greatest act of worship possible for a human, for only he, the shahid, witnesses to, shahida, God Himself.

    MUCH more at
    The following list offers only an abbreviated glimpse of the hellish lives Afghans, especially women, are forced to lead under the Taliban.

    Taliban punishments include:
    Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram. Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles. Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).

    Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed. Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed.

    Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population. Just like what did Nazis with Jews.

    Women have no importance in Taliban eyes unless they are occupied producing children, satisfying male sexual needs or attending to the drudgery of daily housework.Taliban restrictions of women include:

    Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul. Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband). Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers. Ban on women being treated by male doctors. Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools into religious seminaries.) Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.

    Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off). Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.
    Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice). Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.) Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram. Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind. Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club. Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams. Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors." Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose. Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden". Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses. Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes. Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only"). Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa. Ban on the photographing or filming of women. Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.

    Apart from the above restrictions, the Taliban has:

    Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well.
    Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone.

    Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones. Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap. Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin. Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.

    Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. . Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping. Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic"according to Taliban.

    And so on...
    Source Google cached file of
    But it is NOT the Afgahan people that are to blame, but the Taliban which is an extreme "psychotic cult" who took over Afghanistan in 1997.

    The following is by Tamim Ansary an Afghani-American writer:

    There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.  I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan.  They're not even the government of Afghanistan.

    The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan.  When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."   It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators.  They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats' nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

    Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban?  The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.  A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan - a country with no economy, no food.  There are millions of widows.  And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves.  The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets.  These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

    We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done.  The Soviets took care of it already.  Make the Afghans suffer?  They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.  Eradicate their hospitals? Done.  Destroy their infrastructure?  Cut them off from medicine and health care?  Too late.  Someone already did all that. 

    New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.  Would they at least get the Taliban?  Not likely.  In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around.  They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing.  Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban - by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.  So what else is there?

    What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops.  When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed.  Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand.  What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout.  It's much bigger than that folks.

    Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first.  Will other Muslim nations just stand by?  You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.  And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program.  That's exactly what he wants.  That's why he did this. 

    Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west.  It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers.  If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, and that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view.  He's probably wrong -  in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the War would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours.

    Who has the belly for that?  Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

    Tamim Ansary