Tookie, we hardly knew ye!!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by paulbunyon, Dec 13, 2005.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. beeker

    beeker

    Messages:
    346
    the ages represent victims tool- not the age of those commiting said
    murders-
  2. oddfellow4870

    oddfellow4870

    Messages:
    3,094
    I feel a strained dualism about Tookie. I hope he found God, found rest in his soul, was a positive influence over others in his latter days and is admired by somebody somewhere for those things. But he deserved to die. Even if he had a bad childhood and was lead astray by bad people or difficult conditions, he deserved to die. People need to learn that compassion and understanding must co-exist with justice and not warp it.
  3. Fuck Tookie and all of his minions.
  4. paulbunyon

    paulbunyon

    Messages:
    8,041
    I do know what you mean about the dead being gone so get over it but its just that, from the reports I heard, this funeral was almost like a celebration of the gangster life. Truly horrifying. These gangs are the f-ing scourge of the inner-city (and a growing number of other areas) and responsible for so much mayhem over the years and this guy Williams had a hand in founding one of the two most notorious gangs in the country.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  5. paulbunyon

    paulbunyon

    Messages:
    8,041
    .....and they can't jump over the chain-link fence as well either!
  6. remsenst

    remsenst

    Messages:
    1,080
    Couldn't get to the stats on this to explore it further but, seriously, you can't actually be trying to make a statement with the stats you posted, do you? I would venture to say that each of the demographic groups you presented also have one other very disparate factor and that is the demographic group into which the murderers lie. Do you think the same people who are killing young black men are killing old white men?

    I would also venture to say that the demographics of the victims are probably very similar to that of the perpetrators. I remember reading somewhere that many murder victims know their killers; these murders are the result of rage, emotional disturbance, domestic violence, etc. and not your typical made-for-television premeditated murder or drive-by.

    Young black men hang out with young black men; old white men hang out with old white men.

    (Get ready, here's my Jimmy the Greek reference)

    Besides, 65 year old white guys can't run away from the murder scene as fast as an 18-34 year old black guy!
  7. jras

    jras

    Messages:
    3,149
    don't let gangsta fashion stir you up, paul
    tookie did better with his time on deathrow than most do - let the dead fuckin RIP
  8. paulbunyon

    paulbunyon

    Messages:
    8,041
    Rot in hell, good ol Tookie!

    The story is about the Williams funeral. many celebs there, including Jesse Jackson, Snoop Doog and Tony Robbins?! What the hell are these people thinking, glorifying this killer's life? Just saw on the news that many people in the crowd had on blue baseball caps and blue shirts, the Crips colors. What a fucking role-model.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051220/ap_on_re_us/williams_funeral_4
  9. beeker

    beeker

    Messages:
    346
    is that so?


    www.ojp.usdoj*****/bjs/homicide/imputationandweighting.htm


    The government admits to an unsolved murder rate of 50% for black
    males between the ages of 18-34.However-if your white and over 65-
    only .01 percent of the murders in your demographic are not accounted for.

    And as for legalizing drugs- what would the po po due to fluff up their OT?
    a marijuana posession arrest only results in a 150.00 fine in NYC.
    can anyone here estimate attorneys costs are for such an infraction?
    social crimes pay for cops, lawyers, judges-
    THE EMPEROR WEARS NO CLOTHES- JACK HERER
  10. argleby

    argleby

    Messages:
    688
    I believe something like 90+% of all murders are solved, so the guy's original point (if that's what it was, hard to tell) doesn't really make sense.

    I agree strongly about the legalizing drugs. I think you understate what it would do to organized crime. But I don't think it'll happen anytime soon in the USA.
  11. Rokin

    Rokin

    Messages:
    2,846
    I have no idea how many murders we catch.
    Many of the incarcerated are in prison fro drug related offenses. I think that we should legalize, regulate and tax drugs. We will save a fortune on investigating, prosecuting and imprisoning offenders, raise money on taxes and help snuff ouot organized crime who make a mint on selling drugs only becasue they are illegal.
  12. paulbunyon

    paulbunyon

    Messages:
    8,041
    I thought thats what he meant, thanks for (somewhat) clearing that up Yamaha, I mean Rok :) .....just for the sake of argument though, how does he know that we DON'T catch at least half of all murderers now. If there is some good data on the number of unsolved murders from the last 30 years I'd love to see it. Aren't there over 2 million prisoners incarcerated in U.S. jails right now. It seems to me that a hell of a lot of crimes are being prosecuted. So many crimes are being prosecuted that Europe loves to criticize that high number of people in prison. And remember, I'm sure a good percentage of murderers kill more than one people, i.e. serial killers. Also, I'm also sure that a lot of murderers wind up going to jail for other offenses. So, my long winded point is that we DO eventually catch a good percentage of these cocksuckers already.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2005
  13. Rokin

    Rokin

    Messages:
    2,846
    I think he means that if you caught half of the murderers, you would have an awfully large number of people to prosecute and imprison whcih would cost a lot of money which would result in much large taxes whcih would result in only wealthy people having enough dough to monger.
    Whew that was a long sentence.
    I feel like yamaha for a minute
  14. paulbunyon

    paulbunyon

    Messages:
    8,041
    Not sure I follow you on this, beeker.
  15. beeker

    beeker

    Messages:
    346
    there have been 600,000 murders in this country-over the last
    30 years.If every single municipalty/LEO agency managed to
    account for half of the victims- 90 percent of people on this
    board couldn't afford to monger.
  16. kunny

    kunny

    Messages:
    208
    No problem with Tookie's death.

    Too bad they couldn't retro the death penalty. Too many folks still alive who should be dead, i.e. Manson, Sir Han Sir Han, etc.

    BTK should be gone.
  17. paulbunyon

    paulbunyon

    Messages:
    8,041
    One Problem in Abu-Jamal Crusade: He's Guilty (Cont'd) :


    While there was a grain of truth to some of the claims, many were simplifications, exaggerations or outright lies. For instance, Abu-Jamal supporters scream that a .44-caliber bullet was removed from Faulkner's body but that Abu-Jamal had a .38. In fact, that claim has been debunked by the defense team's own ballistics expert.

    Mumia supporters, who tend to work themselves into a lather, have foamed at me for years, and I think I know why I make them so uncomfortable.

    I believe there's an unconscionable history of police brutality and frame jobs on minorities in Philadelphia, Los Angeles and the rest of the country.

    I believe the death penalty is so disproportionately applied to minorities without adequate legal representation, it ought to be abolished.

    And yet I refuse to buy into their political claptrap and help them make a martyr of Abu-Jamal, who shot Danny Faulkner in cold blood and watched him die.

    Had Abu-Jamal argued that it was a matter of self-defense, I might have thought differently. But he didn't. For 20 years, in fact, he said absolutely nothing about what happened. You'd think that might set off a few alarms among breathless supporters, but not a chance.

    In the absence of an explanation from Abu-Jamal, Hollywood celebrities, racially motivated apologists and other misguided opportunists created their own, pitching half-baked conspiracies and cockamamie tales of mystery killers fleeing the scene.

    But here's the topper:

    For 20 years, Abu-Jamal's own brother Billy, who was at the scene of the crime, never uttered a word in his defense. What kind of sap buys into Abu-Jamal's innocence when his own flesh and blood lets him stew on death row?

    Earlier this year, Abu-Jamal's latest defense team broke the big news that Faulkner was killed by a Mafia hit man, a scenario so ridiculous that the previous attorneys kept it quiet to avoid embarrassment. And Billy Cook finally broke his silence with the blockbuster report that an unnamed acquaintance of his did the job.

    These were the developments that apparently inspired Parisians to elevate Abu-Jamal into the realm of Picasso.

    This week, when the federal judge ruled that jurors were improperly instructed in the penalty phase of the 1982 trial, neither side was happy.

    Abu-Jamal supporters had wanted the judge to throw out the conviction altogether, prosecutors wanted the death sentence to stick, and both sides plan to appeal.

    And so it drags on for Maureen Faulkner, who was just 24 when this nightmare began, and wishes the federal judge would have left things as they were.

    In past court appearances, she has been spat upon and cursed by Abu-Jamal supporters, for no reason other than her unwavering belief in justice for her husband's killer.

    "Now I'll probably have to relive the whole thing once more," she says. "I'll have to hear Mumia supporters screaming at me and pointing their fingers like they're shooting at me. It's been over 20 years now. Is there any regard for the survivors of crime?"
  18. paulbunyon

    paulbunyon

    Messages:
    8,041
    C'mon, BB, Abu-Jamal's case went all the way to the Pennsylvania Surpreme Court. Previously, something like 12 judges had reviewed the case and found it was legit. And before that, after he was convicted in '82, his eventual appeal a few years later was denied on the Appealate level. To try and claim that poor Mumia didn't get his due process is disingenuous. The same people who supported good old Tookie are championing this scumbag Mumia. Just like in the Williams case they try to muddy the waters and confuse people. Don't believe the hype. Look, we can disagree with the punishment (I'm usually for the death penalty but not exclusively) but this guy is as guilty as sin.



    One Problem in Abu-Jamal Crusade: He's Guilty
    The Los Angeles Times; Los Angeles, Calif.; Dec 21, 2001; STEVE LOPEZ;


    Maureen Faulkner moved across the country after her husband was shot and killed on a downtown Philadelphia street 20 years ago this month. In Camarillo, she made new friends, started a new job and tried to build a new life.

    But the old one keeps chasing after her.

    Faulkner's late husband, Danny, was a cop. The man who killed him, Mumia Abu-Jamal, has become an international celebrity and a symbol of everything that's wrong with the American judicial system.

    This week, after years of appeals, a federal judge in Philadelphia affirmed the 1982 murder conviction but threw out the death sentence. He ordered that Abu-Jamal either be kept in prison for life or be given a new sentencing hearing.

    Maureen Faulkner, who manages a medical office in Camarillo, has been a wreck since the news. The other night, just after dozing off, she bolted up, gasping for air.

    "I jumped out of bed and couldn't catch my breath, and the reality hit. Oh, my God! I'm going to have to go back to that courtroom and go through this again."

    Having lived and worked in Philadelphia for about 12 years, I happen to know a few things about the murder of Officer Danny Faulkner. I've talked to the prosecutors and to Abu-Jamal attorneys, read the transcripts, studied the appeals and visited the scene of the murder.

    And without qualification, hesitation or a shadow of a doubt, I can tell you this:

    Mumia Abu-Jamal is guiltier than O.J.

    On Dec. 9, 1981, Officer Faulkner made a traffic stop on Abu-Jamal's brother, Billy Cook, who put up a fight. Abu-Jamal happened upon the scene, and shooting began. Faulkner ended up dead, and Abu-Jamal was shot in the chest.

    A gun registered to Abu-Jamal, with five chambers empty, was on the sidewalk. Four witnesses who saw all or part of the shooting implicated Abu-Jamal. One witness said that after Faulkner went down, Abu-Jamal stood over him and sealed the deal with a bullet through the head.

    And yet an international crusade to free Mumia--fueled by endorsements from Hollywood celebrities including Susan Sarandon, Paul Newman, Ossie Davis, Ed Asner, Tim Robbins and Alec Baldwin-- has had people marching in the streets from Africa to Asia and beyond.

    I've seen "Free Mumia" posters and T-shirts in Canada and Greece. Twenty-two members of the British Parliament called for a new trial, and this month the Paris City Council made Abu-Jamal its first honorary citizen in 30 years. The last was Picasso.

    These people believe with all their heart, and very little of their head, that Abu-Jamal is a political prisoner who was framed, scapegoated and railroaded by a racist police force and a hanging judge.

    It's true that the 1982 trial was a circus, but that's because Abu-Jamal wanted it to be. His own attorney told me that Abu-Jamal, a Black Panther, considered himself a revolutionary and didn't want a legal defense. He wanted to make a political statement. At times, Abu-Jamal was removed from the courtroom because of his outbursts.

    When I lived in Philadelphia, I couldn't begin to make sense of the Abu-Jamal juggernaut until I got a call one day from Los Angeles.

    The caller told me he worked in entertainment and had been handed a petition demanding a new trial for Abu-Jamal. Everyone in his office was happily signing up, but he wanted to know more before jumping on the wagon, and someone suggested he call me.

    He read me a list of claims about coerced witnesses, suppressed evidence, fabricated evidence and dark conspiracies. And then I understood the Abu-Jamal fever and accompanying dementia.

    (Cont'd)
  19. justbill_redux

    justbill_redux King Missile

    Messages:
    3,923
    I do but IMO writing a few kiddie books on the dangers of gangs and broking a truce between the Crips & Bloods isn't rehabilitation.
  20. ChuckUFarlie

    ChuckUFarlie

    Messages:
    1,006
    Yes we love a good murder

    I don't see how people that have such anger and a craving for revenge and also fanatically worship celebrities and entertainers can miss this great potential for spectacle. You have Ah-Nold as the man who can grant this former Crip clemency. I say they should have filled a big auditorium and have Ahnold administer the lethal injection. Of course they should have put it on large screens and have Ahnold recite some of his more memorable lines.

    He could hold up the needle and shout:

    "Prepare to be Terminated"

    "'asta la vista, baby" ----from Terminator 2


    or even better, Have Ahnold grant clemency and then drag Tookie out anyway and Ahnold says,

    "Remember when I said I'll kill you last? I lied" ---from Commando