WOOING YOUR PROVIDER

Discussion in 'General Industry Related Topics' started by Ozzy, Jan 25, 2001.

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  1. DickNervous

    DickNervous

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    18
    Thanks Guy.

    I try to make some sort of sense when I post things for public consumption. ;-)
  2. One Eyed Trouser Trout

    One Eyed Trouser Trout #1 Cowboys Fan

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    2,071
    1) debit
    2) debit
    3) debit
    4) debit
    5) debit
  3. Carl M

    Carl M Hanging by a thread

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    86
    Interesting!

    My list looks more like this:

    1)Escorts
    2)Escorts
    3)Escorts
    4)Escorts
    5)Escorts

    Get the point my brothers- YAHOOOO its gonna be 85 degrees in the Glades- Sorry I could not help that- LOL!!
  4. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    the wisest 'debut' post i've ever read on an asp-board.

    bravo!
  5. DickNervous

    DickNervous

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    18
    Well I have been 'lurking' here at Utopia guide for about two weeks and I feel it is time to chime in.

    While I may not have as much expereince in this hobby as some of you obviously do, I have enough to know there is one very simple reality.

    If you treat a provider as a human being with all the niceties that go alont with it such as beign polite, sensitive, and maybe even a little romantic, then you will be treated better. This is especially true when you are a 'regular' customer.

    Here is an example. There was a young lady at a NYC incall establishment that over the course of 1 year I visited with 5 times. The first time was real good, the second better, and so on. I gave a genrouse tip (about 50%) after the first and second visits. The others I brought a little gift such as some flowers or chocalate.

    I had read reviews of this lady on JAG at the time that while they said she was good, they did not compare to the expereinces I had with her. Mine were much better.

    Now, if you want to call this 'wooing', 'being romantic', or just being a decent human being and treatign the ladies as such as well, that is your perogative. I just know it works for me.

    That's my 2 cents.
  6. guy catelli

    guy catelli

    Messages:
    478
    Originally posted by HornDogBuddah:

    i've been meaning to mention that you have an interesting screen name. i've heard of the laughing Buddha, but, until now, not the horny dog Buddha. but, hey, why not!

    I've avoided weighing in on this topic until now. It seems to me that there are two extremes to this issue.

    well, i, for one, would like to go on the record and say that i'm a moderate in all things. it only seems otherwise when i'm debating with extremists, like justme and wsb.

    At one pole is the client who is aloof, impersonal, unsympathetic, unempathetic -- he shows up (let's allow him to be clean, neat, undiseased, etc.) and says, here's my money, here's my dick, why don't you start sucking it? (Sorry to be so graphic, but it illustrates the point.)

    no need to apologize. you have described justme and wsb to a 't', as they demonstrated in the "how much caffeine ..." thread. however, i believe that they are never crude or even impolite when with a lady. but, it's clear from their postings that you have accurately described the mindset with which they approach this thing of ours.

    At the other end of the scale is the fellow who brings presents to the provider. These can range from flowers, to poems, to candy, to flourless chocolate cakes with raspberry sauce (a little passe, if you go by what the hot chefs are now doing, but what the hell, it's more than 99% of us could do), to SL 500s and country villas. Does the gift giver get different service from the first guy? I certainly hope so.

    look, this is really not so complicated. i have a cousin whose father remarried and basically forgot the rest of us existed. in anticipation of one upcoming holiday, she informed the rest of the family that it would be pointless to give him a gift, because he would not be reciprocating. i pointed out to her that THE JOY IS IN THE GIVING. (fast forward to this holiday just past: she announced that she did not want to exchange any gifts, because she did not want to exchange gifts with her husband's family, and therefore [who the eff knows ;))

    Is it proportional to the cost of the gift? Probably. (Don't tell me that flowers evoke the same response as a car.)

    no way would i say otherwise. but, funny thing is, there was a thread on tbd sometime back, in which a number of escorts said they really don't like gifts that are too expensive -- because to accept them would imply they were available for a level of commitment that was not in the cards.

    i then outlined what i typically do, and the moaner and groaner that had started the thread said it was perfect, or something like that.

    But what's the point? If you offer a lot more $$$ than her normal fee, don't you think that she will act differently towards you? Has anyone tried this? What do you think would happen if you booked two hours with a $400/hr girl and told her you would give her $1500 for those two hours? Would she tell you no? Or would she rev up her imagination and her skills in order to get you to return again and again?

    i haven't heard anybody denying that.

    Wooing your provider seems fairly silly and self-delusional.

    well, being an avid fan of Andrea Bocelli singing opera arias seems silly and self-delusional to me. and, i have a civilian female friend, with a much better ear for music than i, who loves Bocelli but can find every single fault in Pavorotti's breathing (i suspect because Pav is a notorious lech ;)). but, i'm not going to heap contempt on her (same with a woman i know that has 19 cats (she's not really sure how many, actually)).

    but, if you go to alt.music.opera on deja.com, and do a search for 'Bocelli', you'll find that every time a Bocelli fan says anything nice about Bocelli, a gang of opera fanatics descend and start flaming with obscene bile. these threads can and do run to 100's of postings.

    *i* can't see the point of *that*. what is it about certain people that motivates them to rain on someone else's picnic, not with a drop or two, but with a steady stream of criticism that never ends. why can't they just ignore the Bocelli fans like more emotionally mature posters do?

    another poster (here) made mention of how bitter and angry the jag crowd is about UG. unfortunately, i *can* see why the utilitarians are so hard on the 'diplomats', if that is a less controversial term. obviously, they don't want the escorts to get 'uppity' -- not to mention the sour grapes charge because some can enjoy wine that they cannot.

    The only time it would have meaning is when she is actually not in the providing game for the money but is looking for a true lover/soul mate. And if you think that is where she's at, then I guess you really should bring her gifts because if you don't, how will she know that you're the ONE?

    the only time it would have meaning for *you*. the Grateful Dead don't have meaning for *me*. neither do Seinfeld or Garth Brooks or Britney or Christina. so what? i have no desire to publicly ridicule those for whom these pop icons do have meaning.

    if sports fans cheer for certain players, their salaries go up and so do ticket prices to sporting events. same with fans of movie stars. what do we do about it -- launch a crusade against people being fans?

    [Edited by guy catelli on 02-10-2001 at 06:44 AM]
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    i always tip at the end which is usualy when i pay.....so the girl never knows what i'm going to give. obviously when i see a girl for later dates it might figure into it but on some of those latter sessions i've had the girl decline more $$(a tip) so sometimes the extra $$ don't make a difference....it's rare but it happens.
  8. HornDogBuddah

    HornDogBuddah

    Messages:
    416
    I've avoided weighing in on this topic until now. It seems to me that there are two extremes to this issue. At one pole is the client who is aloof, impersonal, unsympathetic, unempathetic -- he shows up (let's allow him to be clean, neat, undiseased, etc.) and says, here's my money, here's my dick, why don't you start sucking it? (Sorry to be so graphic, but it illustrates the point.) At the other end of the scale is the fellow who brings presents to the provider. These can range from flowers, to poems, to candy, to flourless chocolate cakes with raspberry sauce (a little passe, if you go by what the hot chefs are now doing, but what the hell, it's more than 99% of us could do), to SL 500s and country villas. Does the gift giver get different service from the first guy? I certainly hope so. Is it proportional to the cost of the gift? Probably. (Don't tell me that flowers evoke the same response as a car.)

    But what's the point? If you offer a lot more $$$ than her normal fee, don't you think that she will act differently towards you? Has anyone tried this? What do you think would happen if you booked two hours with a $400/hr girl and told her you would give her $1500 for those two hours? Would she tell you no? Or would she rev up her imagination and her skills in order to get you to return again and again?

    Wooing your provider seems fairly silly and self-delusional. The only time it would have meaning is when she is actually not in the providing game for the money but is looking for a true lover/soul mate. And if you think that is where she's at, then I guess you really should bring her gifts because if you don't, how will she know that you're the ONE?

    [Edited by HornDogBuddah on 02-08-2001 at 06:35 PM]
  9. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    Phantom,
    someone is wearing lots of leather these days........


    GC, nothing.........you gotta draw a line somewhere.
  10. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    nice.
  11. Phantom

    Phantom

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    2,806
    I will most likely take allot of heat for this, but I bought her this outfit which consisted of a pair of lambskin pants, a lambskin jacket and a cashmere sweater. And it definitely wasn't Ozzy.

    For my favorite provider for St. Valentines day I will make her favorite dessert, a flourless chocolate cake with raspberry sauce.




    [Edited by Phantom on 02-08-2001 at 04:18 PM]
  12. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    uh ...

    ok, what did you buy Ozzy?
  13. Phantom

    Phantom

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    2,806
    GC,

    Would you care to know what I bought the last provider I saw?
  14. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    Oz, what are you getting your favorite providers for St. Valentine's Day?
  15. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    isn't he an 'angel'?
  16. guy catelli

    guy catelli

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    478
    i agree, jmcurry

    this is so true, jmcurry. there are different clients and different escorts. everyone is somewhat concerned about money, but almost no one is *only* concerned about moeny. the way a man and a woman relate to each depends on a lot of variables. sex and money are the most important two. but, they're not the *only* two.

    this is really so simple that i am curious about what is blocking so many otherwise intelligent people from acknowledging to themselves what is merely a matter of common sense.
  17. Ozzy

    Ozzy

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    15,725
    oh, and thank god you didn't say "Leo".


    Lenny's actually his good looking brother

    [Edited by Ozzy on 01-26-2001 at 07:58 PM]
  18. Ozzy

    Ozzy

    Messages:
    15,725
    my list looks more like this


    1 escorts
    2 strippers
    3 mistress
    4 girlfriends

    there's no 5
  19. guy catelli

    guy catelli

    Messages:
    478
    hi, Ash

    Originally posted by Ash
    Guy-

    You state that you are going to ignore the "coffee spill" thread because you don't want to know that about a provider. These women aren't librarians, they are sex workers. Threads such as these are bound to be the topic at hand on a sex board.


    Ash, it's good to hear from you again. (btw, you never did tell me if you are a tarheel.)

    since you are obviously an intelligent person i'm going to say something to you that i would not say to most of the others about whom this is true, because they might be more defensive about it than i think you would be.

    that is, i have never seen more nonsequitors in all my life before coming to asp boards.

    i know escorts are not (ususally) librarians {which is precisely my point that treating escorts like a lady is much more likely to produce a big return on investment -- unlike with the average librarian}.

    and, i know facials are likely to be discussed on an asp board. my point in saying i wouldn't read them is that those who are similarly adverse to fluffballs, wooing, etc, might just as easily not read that.

    You want to woo providers because you can't woo normal women or they'll call the cops on you.

    i want to woo them for the same reason i want to hump them: i enjoy doing it.

    I've personally never had this problem, but then again I've got no clue what you look like.

    let's put it this way: Ozzy is Lenny Dicaprio compared to me ;-)

    Wooing a provider is for the most part a pointless act.
    The end result is going to be the same, whether you woo or not. Yet the beauty of seeing a provider is if you want pay to spill the cream, you can do that. If you want to pay to sit and woo her the whole time like you do, thats possible too. You have the right to spend your money the way you want to. Yet so do others, others who don't subscribe to the philosophy of romancing a prostitute. For the most part customers don't want to date prostitutes or romance them like you do, they just want sex that they aren't getting elsewhere without strings.


    we're in total agreement on this, Ash. but (and this doesn't apply to you, because i haven't known you long enough to know), that doesn't explain why there is such incredble hostility to those who woo. on my first asp board, a guy spent 6 months heaping contempt on me for bringing an escort a $10 bunch of roses.

    another expressed only contempt for clients who woo providers. i show up here and the first thing someone says is: "no ass-kissing reviews". sheesh!

    very simply, the view has been repeatedly expressed that treating escorts like a "normal woman" (as Ozzy perfectly put it) changes the balance of power in ways that the more utilitarian clients find threatening. what are you guys so afraid of that you have to endlessly attack Romantics?

    But one must always remember, that you're not dating these women.

    "ain't nobody's business if i do..." http://users.bart.nl/~ecduzit/billy/pict/page1/pict11.html

    Your wooing can only go as far as your paycheck can take you.

    with all due respect, that's really not anyone else's call but hers.

    The only reason providers flirt with you on TBD Guy is because they know exactly the role you want them to play, and the reason they play it is because you have one thing, not intelligence, not wit, not a sense of romance, but a wallet full of money.

    the truth is that they flirt with me because i am even more wonderful than MW.

    You're probably much better off romancing a normal woman ...

    if i wanted to woo the girl-next-door type, i would go next door.

    where your wooing will actually mean something other than a new car or apartment payments.

    i'm glad you brought this up, Ash. this is one of the great ironies of the whole Romantic/anti-Romantic debate. about the only thing i have read *both* sides agree on is that the net-net-net of it all is that the total cost decreases as one moves down this list:

    1. wife
    2. girlfriend
    3. mistress
    4. escort

    you get the most quality time for the least money with escorts. so, if your focus is on the financial angle, then escorts deserve the most wooing, not the least.

    but, i'm always happy to continuing dialoging with a gentleman, like yourself.



    [Edited by guy catelli on 02-10-2001 at 06:42 AM]
  20. jmcurry

    jmcurry The Insider

    Messages:
    485
    I am not certain that "wooing" is the correct term, although we could debate the semiotics of that word endlessly. Nonetheless, I do believe that a john can "court" or "woo" a provider in this "hooby", out of total sincerity. It is possible, after all, to care deeply about someone whom you have visited. Believe me, I speak from personal experience. I have "wooed" an escort, not due to her skills, but because her personality, perspective on life, and general state of being is similar to mine. I am as comfortable taking her out for drinks and dinner as I am spending private time with her. I am not at all certain that she feels the same way, but that is largely immaterial. There is a constant dialectic at work in the relationship between "providers" and "hobbyists". In no way can that nexus be reduced to a simplistic equation.