You will never settle for US providers after this

Discussion in 'New York' started by Nobel, Jun 9, 2001.

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  1. Nobel

    Nobel

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    In Germany and most of Europe there is no social stigma associated with going to these places. So what if you run into a client or boss at these places? They will just think you're one of the guys who likes to have a good time. Only in the US will you have problems (although you wonder, if 2 people are in a place like this, then why think poorly of the other guy when you too are in it!!).


    Places like these cannot exist in the US because despite what we like to believe about being the most liberated country in the world, we are most certainly not. Too much damn social insecurity...too much trying to decide what is wrong and right.
  2. Monk

    Monk

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    3,380
    SB

    I'm fully cognizant of the risk/reward equation here. Nonetheless, I still think it might be possible (there are a number of quasi-legal swing clubs that operate in New York, for example). I firmly believe it has to do with whose hands you grease.

    My answer to why these types of clubs don't open here is that providers and "madams" don't see a need. Hell, they can get so much more money from us and offer us so much less right now, they'd have to be crazy to change the business model.

    As for the lack of anonymity in these places, I admit it shocked me at first. You see all of your fellow "Johns" -- in fact, sometimes you see sex acts performed on some of your fellow Johns. The locker room in which you change is also open, so I undressed with a fellow John. That said, though, the German's seem to have no trouble with it. Just as there was a wide cultural variety of providers at the club I visited (African, Brazilian, Israeli, German, Russian, etc.), so too were there a wide variety of clients (Turkish, Arab, etc.). I think what happens is this: you all know why you're there, it's a lot of fun, so why feel ashamed? Ultimately, it's a liberating experience.
  3. ryan

    ryan

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  4. ryan

    ryan

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    Nobel, tell me where to send you my check, because I owe you big time !!

    I knew about these clubs but was having trouble finding good recent info. I will be in Germany for 10 full days of vacation very soon. This is exactly what I was looking for! And thanks bede for the links. I can't believe the timing on this thread.

    On Prague - I had been thinking of taking the train into Prague, but I dont have time to get my visa. FYI, one-entry visa for Czech Republic is $45, or $90/6 months and the application is a bit long, and a photo is required. Czech Embassy in Manhattan 1109 Madison 717-5643. 10am-2pm M-F. What I learned from recent research: great place to hobby, abundant talent average rate $50-$100. Overnight rates possible $200-$300. Lots of sex clubs. Low risk of rip-off (but possible) with the ladies, more chance of being overcharged by the taxis. And Prague is a beautiful city. Oh well, I'll have to "settle" for Germany this time.

    On Montreal - what else is there to say. Yes there are some great opportunities in Europe. But Montreal (and other Canadian cities) still competes with the best places in the world. Montreal is almost right next door, 6+ hour drive. Average agency rate $100-$130/hr. Cheaper than Toronto. I was up in Montreal three weeks ago. Almost saw the U2 concert (damn...). $440 USD for 4 girls over three days. My buddy saw 4 girls as well. Some great lookers and some great mileage potential depending on which agency. This was my third trip to Montreal - I cannot recommended it highly enough. I'll post a review if there's any interest.

    On the title of this thread, I will chime in and agree. There are some very nice ladies here in the US. But at $300-400/hr and the "cautious" climate - it just isn't very appealing. I do occasionally see an escort in the US, but not too often. Hobbying in other countries is a very different experience....

    Any more last minute tips for Germany? Can you recommend any good, inexpensive hotels near the FKK clubs? Email me if you prefer. And thanks again.
  5. zoulou

    zoulou

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    Those places in Germany are perfectly legal. In fact most town in Germany
    have a brothel and the funny part is that locations are clearly showed on local maps. If you happen not to find it, you can go and ask a cop where the brothel is.....

    That takes some getting used to for most of us and I could not get myself to try.

    I have spend half a day at Atlantis http://www.fkk-atlantis.de/frame.htm and in my opinion it is worth a special trip to Germany.

    Prague is another unbelievable destination and the road from Germany is the best drive you'll ever take.
    Talk about rest stops...........

    The prices we are paying here for the overall service we receive is absurd when compare to many European destinations.
  6. Slinky Bender

    Slinky Bender The All Powerful Moderator

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    There are many reasons, but here are two:

    1) Since there is a huge effort to close places down, and places get closed pretty regularly, there is very little incentive to open up a "nice place" like the FFK clubs. Why would someone invest $30,000 to $100,000 in a place that just might get closed in a wekk ?

    2) Since it is illegal, and awful lot of guys who would go to a place which is a "little more upscale than Episodes" don't want to bump into any other clients when they are there. Well, that is part and parcel of these type of places, isn't it ? So you might have problems attracting a major portion of the "market" if you did open one of these places.

    That said, I am still surpirsed that you don't have anyplace ( at least that I know of ) which is "1 level above" Episodes ( assuming you meant epsiodes, rahter than Escapades. BTW Whatever happen to them ??) and "1 level below" places like Julies, Nicole Rio's, etc.

    [Edited by slinkybender on 06-12-2001 at 03:39 PM]
  7. Monk

    Monk

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    3,380
    I too have visited an FKK Club in Frankfurt (the one I went to was smaller, but my experience was very similar). But I disagree with you that these clubs would charge more if they were legal in the U.S. In fact, if the Hobby was legal, prices would go down. I think we end up paying more for all the hoops providers feel they must go through to ensure security. It's just like narcotics; their illegality creates an artificial demand.

    Legal or not, I wish something like the FKK Club experience existed in New York. I don't really understand why it doesn't. The only thing close seems to be Escapades, but from the way it's been described (I've never been), it doesn't even come close!
  8. Nobel

    Nobel

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    I have not been there myself - only heard about it from people who have. It is not really dangerous but it is a ripoff. You are likely to get hustled and there's little you can do about it. You will rarely get what you're promised and you will most definitely overpay. Maybe it is different if you're a local and know what you're doing but as a tourist it can be pretty bad.

    I heard Prague is a whole lot better. Some place called K5.
  9. kaybo

    kaybo

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    Nobel

    What do you mean "not worth it"? Is it a ripoff or dangerous there? Can you explain what you mean? I heard there's a lot of provider action there and it's cheap, but please clear this up for me. Thanks.


    K
  10. Wwanderer

    Wwanderer Kids, don't try this at home

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    We should have an international board, imho.

    There are a lot of great hobby sites outside the US, certainly including the German clubs. I think I would put the legal brothels in some of Australia's bigger cities at the top of my personal list, but there is tremendous variety around the globe and an online forum for exchanging info on foreign opportunities would be great...as this thread indicates. I spend well over half, probably 80% some years, of my hobby dollars abroad.

    However, there is one cost of making a trip abroad for the specific purpose of hobbying (as opposed to being there for business or some other unrelated reason) that makes it much more expensive than it seems naively, namely *your time*. You will just about always spend a lot of hours sitting on planes, recovering from jetlag, navigating around unfamiliar cities or whatever for each one you spend doing a horizonal dance with some local cutie. Whether you value your time strictly in terms of money or, more rationally, realize that it is a more fundamental resource than money anyway, the time cost will dominate all the others if you really think about going all the way to, say, Germany just to get laid.

    There are other disadvantages to "sex vacations" in my opinion; it just isn't the way my libido works...or most guys I think. In other words, most of us don;t get so incredibly horny that we want to do nothing but hobby day-and-night for a week or two and then fly home and forget about it for the next 6 months or a year until the next trip. It may work well for some, especially young single guys, but I suspect that US providers have relatively little to worry due to foreign competition, at least as far as most of their clients are concerned.

    -Ww
  11. Nobel

    Nobel

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    Budapest

    Budapest's hobby scene is run by the mafia...everyone is involved, including the cab drivers. It's not really worth it....
  12. HAPPY GUY

    HAPPY GUY

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    I'm going to Montreal this summer, and will post a detailed report once I return.
  13. ROYAL

    ROYAL

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    WOW!

    I will do Germany SOON ! I'm Goin to post a thread for Traveling. Feel free to post your Sexperience !
    Thanx ;)
  14. kaybo

    kaybo

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    Thanks for all the great info everybody. Does anyone have leads on Budapest? I understand it gets pretty wild and I'll be definitely be there after Germany.

    Thanks.

    K

    PS I've gone Amsterdam "window shopping" and while some of the ladies I had were incredibly beautiful, their set up was less than erotic. Does Amsterdam have anything like FKK Oase?
  15. Nobel

    Nobel

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    Cheaper to do this

    Actually, for most of the year tickets to Germany can be as cheap as $300 round-trip.

    In the end it turns out to be cheaper to do this than to have a few sessions with US providers...even the cheaper ones.

    But you can't even begin to compare the experience you get there with what you get in the US. In the US, you either pay $800 for that model+GFE experience or pay $200 and for a hag+GFE. Hard to find both for a reasonable price. In Germany $100 will do it.
  16. fkk oase

    the site is in german but here is the homepage for the oase:

    http://www.fkk-oase.de/

    also, here's a site in both english and german with all sorts of info and direct links to fkk clubs:

    http://151.196.85.98/germansexguide/fkk.htm

    and finally, a fellow ug poster previously posted this great link to an amsterdam info site with a message board that is a must read for anyone contemplating a trip to the 'dam:

    http://www.ignatzmice.com/

    we americans can only feel envy when we look at these sites...
  17. neversoft

    neversoft

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    Foreign Ports

    Just go to Canada. Escorting is permissable, outcall is legal, incall places are heavily frowned upon. Toronto and Montreal are great places to start. Niagra Falls isn't too bad either. No passport to enter either.

    Toronto is a fairly modern city and great for sports, theater and shopping. Great hotels and restaurants, activities along Lake Ontario. 100's of very hot girls on line and in local papers. Short flight from NYC.

    Montreal is very Euro in flavor, and of course, the primary language is French...'nuff said. (5-6 hour drive from NYC)

    Niagra Falls is only about 90 minutes from Toronto ( no local airport, 6-7 hour drive from NYC.) NIce Casino. Best strip clubs in North America. Absolutely gorgeous women, with many girls rotating between there and sister clubs across Canada. For 3-5 private dances, many girls will give you HJ or BBBJ in dance booth. All for about $20 Cdn per dance. Some even get off with you. Many girls will also go home with you after their shift for another $200-300 Cdn. And the falls are worth seeing as well.

    Most escort fees are $200 to $250 Cdn per hour for basic service (CFS/BBBJ) and the knockout GFE types charge in the $350/hour Cdn range. MP's charge around $100 per half /$180 for full hour. Quality and service varies greatly in these places from one to another and by night.

    And that leads me to the best part: $200 Cdn is about $125 US$ and $350 Cdn is about $220 US$. Not as good as the rates in Germany, but alot easier and cheaper to get to.

    In my travels there, I found most of the girls to be very friendly and relaxed since they don't have to worry about LE. Response times were good and most girls would discuss there "do's and don't's" list on the phone. Agency girls are also good. Occassional "bait and switch," but they always send a girl at least as good looking as the one in the pic, in my experience. As always, YMMV, eh?
  18. Nobel

    Nobel

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    kaybo

    kaybo, if you go to Frankfurt and ask the cab driver to take you to "FKK Oase in Bad Homburg," they will know exactly where to go! If there's one thing those cabs know well, it is this!
  19. Nobel

    Nobel

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    Yes, you can cab it from Frankfurt. Will cost about $30. The alternative is to take a train and then a cab from the station. Much cheaper.

    I don't speak a word of German other than "Thank You" and "Hello" etc and I had no problem at all.

    You cannot compare a place like this to Thailand, Tiajuana, or even Amsterdam in some ways. Thailand and Tiajuana are mostly dirty and cheap - you get what you pay for. Not here. I find Amsterdam becoming more and more difficult to deal with -- too much hustling going on there and you really have to be in the know to find the best place.

    If it were legal in the US, a place like this could easily charge 5 times what it currently charges.

    These places are perfectly legal in Germany. They operate as "nude saunas" and then whatever goes on behind closed doors is private. Of course everyone knows what goes on but I don't think the Germans care - it is a much more liberated country than the US.
  20. ew

    ew Silver

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